[Telmo Menezes] "Imagine the "universe" in terms of the set of all first-person experience moments of all of its inhabitants. Is there a limit to novelty here? Or can qualia also display unbounded complexity?" [Philip Benjamin] How will you include Augustine's (3rd - 4 th Centuries, https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine) first person experience into your imagined universe? It was Augustine who pulled the West out of Greco-Roman superstitious paganism and baptized Platonism into Scriptural norms and thus became the architect of Western Civilization. Augustine himself was a Phoenician profligate pagan with un-awakened consciousness who was instantly transformed into a non-pagan with awakened consciousness by "accidentally" listening to a child's song (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine). America is a product of similar "Two Great Awakenings" which are both historical and historic. [Telmo Menezes] "You wouldn't if you thought about the evolution of mind and how it serves in natural selection. Counting is very useful. Even animals do it". [Philip Benjamin] How is Evolution qua trans-speciation is applicable to "mind"? Natural selection is adaptation, an informational capability that is built into the genetic structures which involve chemical bonds. That is an ENDOWMENT not EVOLUTION. Instant transformation of mind is clearly illustrated in Augustinian first person experience. There is no trans-speciation here form lower animal to a higher animal!! Philip Benjamin
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <[email protected]> Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:15 PM [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?) On 12/16/2020 11:29 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Am Do, 17. Dez 2020, um 03:08, schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List: On 12/16/2020 9:20 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Am So, 13. Dez 2020, um 17:11, schrieb Bruno Marchal: On 10 Dec 2020, at 16:14, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Mindey asked a very interesting question, and I've been thinking about it while following the discussion. I don't have a good answer, but I might have a good question. I propose another take: the discussion so far has been in terms of quanta, but what if we reframed it in terms of qualia? Imagine the "universe" in terms of the set of all first-person experience moments of all of its inhabitants. Is there a limit to novelty here? Or can qualia also display unbounded complexity? With Mechanism, we have to separate clearly the ontology, which is given by the minimal things that we have to assume because we cannot derive them from simpler thing, and which has to be enough rich to support a universal machine. There is some amount of latitude here, because we can assume any universal machinery(*). As everyone believe already in natural numbers and the laws of addition and multiplication, I use them (albeit in my course I prefer to use the combinators, but once we have them we have the numbers+laws, and vice versa. Still, don't you find it incredibly strange that such a thing exists to being with? You wouldn't if you thought about the evolution of mind and how it serves in natural selection. Counting is very useful. Even animals do it. I am aware. What I mean is that it is incredibly strange that anything exists at all. If nothing existed that would be a contradiction in terms. :-) Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SA0PR11MB470490C05DF44BBBB815AF61A8C30%40SA0PR11MB4704.namprd11.prod.outlook.com.
