Saturday, May 7, 2022 3:53 PM 'general_the...@googlegroups.com'
general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
[Rosemary Rock Evans]
"And although I do not disagree with your idea of the immortal soul being dark
energy, .... The brain alone does nothing. The emotion is by far the most
important factor and all of it is metaphysical."
[Philip Benjamin]
No, I never equated dark energy with soul/spirit, because in all ancient
languages soul/spirit have their roots in breath/breeze. When the last breath
was gone, the ancients discerned that life is over. Thus 'life principle' was
equated with something similar to wind! If they had any understanding of
"invisible matter" they might have equated 'life principle' with that--
"matter" nevertheless.
Dark matter PARTICLES- not dark energy - as any other matter will have
chemistries i.e. spin governed particle configurations called chemical bonds. A
resonant dark twin made of PARTICLES is cocreated at the moment of conception.
Resonance is rudimentary recognition. That is plausibly the basis of
self-awareness, if " self" is real and invisible. Self-talk, self-respect etc.
cannot be dark-energy talk and dark-energy self-respect. None talks to dark
energy.
Dark energy is an invention to save the Big Bang speculation and the
mathematics associated with it. Dark-matter was more accurately termed "missing
matter" by Fritz Zwicky, because there was a real measurable mass difference of
distant rotating hot bodies calculated optically and gravitationally. Vera
Rubin confirmed that. Astrophysical hot bodies are composed of H, He and
perhaps innumerable particles of the corresponding dark-matter. Biosphere
consists of 92 + ordinary 'light matter' and possibly corresponding
dark-matter. There is nothing outlandish about that.
Philip Benjamin
From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online
<general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2022 10:19 AM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
I can understand why the young man who commented , said what he did. There is a
great emphasis on AI and robotics at the moment in many universities. He
mentionned neural nets, for example, and these are used for finger print
recognition in the police.
But it is as if we are trying to make things which are artificial have some
degree of 'soul' because we want them to be humane - kind. Can we program
kindness, empathy, self awareness, etc into a machine?
It is very laudible, because whoever is doing this, wants machines to be
'humane'. It would be wonderful if we could - do not hurt - but machines should
be under our control, so that they don't hurt, because only things which have a
soul can be hurt - whether physically or emotionally.
Memory, learning ability - are just functions - that in many ways can be
replicated - but love, hurt, hate, joy, desire, grief, etc - the emotions? Our
soul experiences them.
And maybe by this simple statement I have defined what 'life' is and
consciousness. It is the ability to be hurt and to love and be loved. To
experience emotions. And I would hope that a convincing enough number of
youtube videos show that animals do both - and that is why we are all 'animals'
- we have applied this definition without even thinking about it.
And although I do not disagree with your idea of the immortal soul being dark
energy, it is the immortal soul that counts as the ultimate test of whether one
is conscious. A person can have a brain and die of grief or loneliness or fear.
The brain alone does nothing. The emotion is by far the most important factor
and all of it is metaphysical.
Self consciousness is, I think, something else. A child and a dog do not really
experience self consciousness, although they are clearly conscious.
I think we need to start valuing the things that make us [and living things]
'human', without attempting to replicate them - be 'God'. I may be given a self
driving car, but only David can point out the beauty of the cloud formations
and talk about the clarity of the light. A machine does not know beauty.
It is the separation of the 'feminine' emotional, perceptive side from the
symbolically unemotional, memory driven so called scientific side that has got
us into the mess we are in - in Ukraine for example.
The 'masculine' has entirely taken over, where personal desires and objectives,
avoidance of all unfiltered perceptions of reality, and an ability to devise a
strategy that meets objectives, but loses all sense of humanity, produces
carnage.
Note that I have named no names, as Mr Putin is probably not the actual one
doing this. I suspect he is a puppet. I want to know 'who' or 'what' is pulling
his strings.
best wishes to you
rosie
PS Sorry this is a bit long, but the writing is big
------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin"
<medinucl...@hotmail.com<mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>"
<general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Thursday, 5 May, 22 At 15:18
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
Hi, Rosie:
Doesn't that depend on how you define life itself? If life is defined as energy
then almost everything is energy and life!! Then the question is what is
energy? Nobody knows. A good beginning will be to define self-consciousness,
i.e. to be conscious of "self". Then if self is not real, consciousness is also
unreal and does not belong to the realm of science. If self is real and
invisible the only candidate for that is bio dark-matter body "twin" cocreated
with its own chemistry (computational) at the moment of conception, made of
dark particles of negligible mass with respect to electron. Resonance between
the twins will be a basis for self-consciousness. Resonance is rudimentary
recognition.
Philip.
From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online
<general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2022 12:54 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
Dear Philip,
1. To be conscious does something have to have a brain?
2. To be conscious does it have to be capable of reproducing?
rosie
------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin"
<medinucl...@hotmail.com<mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>"
<general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, 4 May, 22 At 18:43
Subject: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
everything-list@googlegroups.com<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
[Philip Benjamin]
The question: "If simple creatures like worms or insects are conscious,
(because they have brains, and evolved), then wouldn't these artificial life
forms be conscious for the same reasons? " is irrelevant. Simple creatures
reproduce. Will robots reproduce? Baby robots? Do they have a desire for and
grow on the pablum of metal powder and vaseline? Simple creatures
trans-speciated from what ? Worms evolve into worms? The oldest fossils found
are algae and bacteria. Still the same type of bacteria and algae today!!
Philip Benjamin
Nonconformist to Marxist-Socialist pagan globalism of the WAMP.
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