@Jason. Uuu... big boy beliving in Santa Claus! Way to go! On Tuesday 9 July 2024 at 14:50:10 UTC+3 Jason Resch wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2024, 4:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> So, where is Santa Claus ? > > > If he's possible in this universe he exists very far away. If he's not > possible in this universe but possible in other universes then he exists in > some subset of those universes where he is possible. If he's not logically > possible he doesn't exist anywhere. > > > Also, does he bring presents to all the children in the world in 1 night ? >> How does he do that ? >> > > He sprinkles fairy dust all over the planet (nano bot swarms) which travel > down chimneys to self-assemble presents from ambient matter, after they > scan the brain's of sleeping children to see if they are naughty or nice > and what present they hoped for. > > Jason > > > >> On Tuesday 9 July 2024 at 07:31:46 UTC+3 Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2024, 6:38 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> So based on your definition, Santa Claus exists. >>>> >>> >>> I believe everything possible exists. >>> >>> That is the idea this mail list was created to discuss, after all. (That >>> is why it is called the "everything list") >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Tuesday 9 July 2024 at 00:47:28 UTC+3 Jason Resch wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2024, 5:17 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Brain doesn't exist. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Then it exists as an object in consciousness, which is as much as >>>>> exist would mean under idealism. Rather than say things don't exist, I >>>>> think it would be better to redefine what is meant by existence. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sure, and all objects exist in the mind of God. So "exist" goes back >>>>> to meaning what it has always meant, as Markus Mueller said (roughly): "A >>>>> exists for B, when changing the state of A can change the state of B, and >>>>> vice versa, under certain auxiliary conditions." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> See my papers, like "How Self-Reference Builds the World": >>>>>> https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I have, and replied with comments and questions. You, however, >>>>> dismissed them as me not having read your paper. >>>>> >>>>> Have you seen my paper on how computational observers build the world? >>>>> It reaches a similar conclusion to yours: >>>>> >>>>> https://philpeople.org/profiles/jason-k-resch >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Monday 8 July 2024 at 23:35:12 UTC+3 Jason Resch wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2024, 4:04 PM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at 2:12 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *>Consciousness is a prerequisite of intelligence.* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think you've got that backwards, intelligence is a prerequisite >>>>>>>> of consciousness. And the possibility of intelligent ACTIONS is a >>>>>>>> prerequisite for Darwinian natural selection to have evolved it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I disagree, but will explain below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *> One can be conscious without being intelligent,* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I define intelligence by something capable of intelligent action. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Intelligent action requires non random choice: choice informed by >>>>>>> information from the environment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Having information about the environment (i.e. perceptions) is >>>>>>> consciousness. You cannot have perceptions without there being some >>>>>>> process >>>>>>> or thing to perceive them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Therefore perceptions (i.e. consciousness) is a requirement and >>>>>>> precondition of being able to perform intelligent actions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Turing Test is not perfect, it has a lot of flaws, but it's all >>>>>>>> we've got. If something passes the Turing Test then it's intelligent >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> conscious, but if it fails the test then it may or may not be >>>>>>>> intelligent >>>>>>>> and or conscious. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *You need to have perceptions (of the environment, or the current >>>>>>>>> situation) in order to act intelligently. * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For intelligence to have evolved, and we know for a fact that it >>>>>>>> has, you not only need to be able to perceive the environment you >>>>>>>> also need to be able to manipulate it. That's why zebras didn't evolve >>>>>>>> great intelligence, they have no hands, so a brilliant zebra wouldn't >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> a great advantage over a dumb zebra, in fact he'd probably be at a >>>>>>>> disadvantage because a big brain is a great energy hog. >>>>>>>> John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> >>>>>>>> 339 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3b4 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2Zjakk5szeMFfZu%3DCYp3FzopZsOOMXW%2Bx7qPH9_pujfg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2Zjakk5szeMFfZu%3DCYp3FzopZsOOMXW%2Bx7qPH9_pujfg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5812f096-a4a9-4915-8fee-5b7c810d3609n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5812f096-a4a9-4915-8fee-5b7c810d3609n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6d73d528-f6d0-42be-855f-2bdb76510663n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6d73d528-f6d0-42be-855f-2bdb76510663n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/01980445-f7da-4569-9da2-f87152fb8bb7n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/01980445-f7da-4569-9da2-f87152fb8bb7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/df5275d6-2325-4940-a61a-f2f5dc26e98cn%40googlegroups.com.
