Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Asuras and Avataras

Wed, 27 Apr 2005 06:25:51 -0700

or an enlightened person could get whacked without
having done anything that would generate that sort of karma (and that
seems irrefutable, since anybody can walk up to an enlightened person
and shoot them or whatever, even though that is not in any way what
they "deserve").
 
----Or he was taking on someone elses or world karma.


But disease is produced by nature, and nature does not make mistakes
(unlike the guy who shot TWB). Therefore, it seems logical to say
that if an enlightened person gets shot by nature, a disease, it is
simply that person's karma returning to him from his ignorant past
(although once the body is destroyed, there is no possibility of
rebirth for the enlightened person since all desires have been
fulfilled by gaining CC). It can't be the case that a disease
affecting an enlightened person is for the purpose of convincing that
enlightened one to give up wrongdoing, since he already has.
 
----This is a very shallow view of karma.  Tell me what you did in past lives to deserve earth air water fire and space.  Tell me what you did which made them all impure and mixed so that they are all polluted now on Earth. Tell me how it is that one person farts and yet the whole room has to smell it.  Karma is not some isolated thing but is mostly shared. It's especially ironic that TM Sidhas who were raised on quantum mechanical explanations of natures working still think in a Newtonian model. Outmoded it is. In a world where all but the most dense humans fear atomic fallout there can be no individual karma any longer. In a world where our method of locomotion pollutes and kills all of the Earth there can be no simple motive in action. Or single, easy to identify consequence. Only the simple things like make a right or left when driving, or choosing to give or be selfish, or whack off or not, or meditate or drink. These are small choices, with small consequences. There's no way to trace the future of a Jeffrey Dahmer. Such a person may never pay back his karma and may even enjoy the hell realms. Nay, he might come to define them. 

In any event, the experience of disease or any other traumatic event
is completely different for the enlightened person (an actually
enlightened person, one hastens to add, not a Fairfield Life list
enlightened person)
 
 
----That's very cynical, judgemental, incorrect, and basically an unhealthy attitude. This same attitude keeps people passing on moral delimmas for their neighbors instead of choosing to do something in real time. And proves the small mindedness and lack of real knowledge that could be had if one really opened their eyes, and hearts. Keep hoping for enlightenment someday, and guess what, that someday will also pass you by. Then death, and then forgetfullness, and then starting over. Don't go that route. You'd better work to guarentee your enlightenment ASAP, so that you can quit this cynical shit Bob. All the greatest masters are alive today in actuality, not in some channelled way, no, in actuality. If you're not getting your money's worth then it's you alone who is spending unwisely. Don't judge others by your choices or lack of. Cynical, cynical, cynical, but with Maharishi as a guru I can see why.
 
 than for the ignorant person who feels that the
body is his self. Disease and death are trivial events for one who is
enlightened, since one lives the unlimited awareness that is the real
Self and can't be affected by anything.
 
 
---I got this same lecture about how we are not the body but the immortal soul from my best friend the other day, as he was smoking crack, and then after I left his house he called his ex wife and said he was gonna kill her, and then she called the cops and he spend two nights in prison before bonding out.  Very ignorant action for one who by your definition of not identifying with the body is enlightened. Perhaps simplistic definitions of enlightenment are not really valuable now or ever.
 
 
 
"Due to not understanding the life of Christ and not understanding
the message of Christ, I don't think Christ ever suffered or Christ
could suffer ... It's a pity that Christ is talked of in terms of
suffering ... Those who count upon the suffering, it is a wrong
interpretation of the life of Christ and the message of Christ ...
How could suffering be associated with the One who has been all joy,
all bliss, who claims all that? It's only the misunderstanding of the
life of Christ." (Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Meditations of Maharishi
Mahesh Yogi, pp. 123-124). For an enlightened person, the death of
the body is like a tree falling in the forest, an inconsequential
event -- death loses its miserable significance for the enlightened,
and so does lesser trauma like disease.
 
----But this also is an interpretation, and not even close to the truth as Jesus in being crucified is giving out pointing out directions to those with the eyes to see. He is saying that everyone is the transcendental consciousness, which has a cross at its base which is the source of the five elements. But in the same way people make sharp corners on the swastika instead of the crossed slight s shapes of the actual arms. Andd that also is an interpretation.  It's not just or correct for any person to criticize another religion though people do it constantly. If one cannot find universal truth within all religions then they can find no universal truth at all anywhere.

So I can't say (although MMY or the Vedic lit may say definitively)
that an enlightened person could never experience any trauma to the
body whether generated by a human or by natural processes, but the
effect would be meaningless on an enlightened person. A world full of
enlightened people would certainly not see the horrible toll of
epidemics like smallpox, which took ~300 million lives just in the
20th century -- the tendency would be toward perfect health,
reflecting the harmonious way of life of the enlightened.
 
---Yes, you could say if you just would live up.  You are enlightened already but you're too fucking scared to act it. You were enlightened from the first meditation you ever had but it took many many years for you to approach the acceptance and you still havent. The only thing waiting for enlightenment is you. Choose or lose.
 
Karma is not karma. Because getting the shit kicked out of one is frightening to most but for the boxer it's what they live for. Or at least experience every day. The poor person sees poverty as travail, but the sage sees it as a chance to benefit the poor. Even if he is starving himself he will even further enjoy the meritorious act of sharing.  The S and M person, well we don't have to go there.
 
Here is the Mahavakya of the ages. You are it.
 
Fuck smallpox. 300,000,000 people dead?  300,000,000 ways to die. What is your way. That's all you can know or do anything about. If you're neasighted. Otherwise you can ignore your own suffering and help the suffering of others. That's another way of dealing. When I did hospice work I went to a client's house. He was blind and taking care of a terminal father and wife, both on machines in his house.  He also worked at a radio station at the same time to bring home the bacon. And he was cheerful. If that's not enlightened, then nothing is. You shall know them by their actions.


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