--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <no_reply@> > > wrote: > > <snip> > > > Related to TM, my view is that when the mind becomes aware, > > > effortless, that the mantra is not there, the intellect says "we > > > should think the mantra" and puts the mind in the mantra room. That > > > is a very small effort of the intellect (maybe). > > <snip> > > > Until there is an understanding / foundational perspective / > > > experience / lifeview that the intellect is functioning in its own > > > domain, by its own rules and does not need "volition" from a "me". > > > (See discussion with trinity some months back). This occurs when an > > > indentity with "being the decison maker" dissolves. > > > > > > So from that clearer, more "awakened" perspective, there is not even > > > any effort on the part of the intellect. It -- the intellect -- and > > > its processes, just happen. Just as effortlessly as thoughts arise > > > in the mind. > > > > FWIW, I'm not convinced that the intellect functions > > at all in this situation, > > Perhaps "intellect" connates something (perhaps slightly) differnt to > you than to me. I am not referring to grand and deep analysis (shich > also is the domain of the intellect), but rather, something akin to > what a 3-cent micro chip might do, a yes/no monitoring function. To me > "intellect's" functions / processes can be at grand scale or very > mundane scale. > > >on its own or via "volition." > > This is an additional quality stacked on the above. If there is > someone who IS the decider, (identifying with decision maker), then > there is volition, IMO, though sometimes it can seem pretty automatic. > In contrast, when there is NO individual entity who IS the decider, > (identifying with decision maker), then there is no volition. It is > clearly automatic. > > Perhaps I could restate the general premise: IF there is effort, it is > when the the intellect decides to go back to the mantra. Or per my > "model", the intellect moves the mind to the mantra room -- and allows > the conditions for the mantra to arise effortlessly. It may seem > automatic, and pavlovian -- due to repeated practice. Or one may > experince a slight volition, a slight effort of the intellect. > > > In my own experience, it's more like a Pavlovian-type > > response to the realization that I'm not thinking the > > mantra. > > > If the intellect is involved at all, it seems to me, it > > would be in the recognition that one is not thinking the > > mantra (i.e., discrimination between not-mantra and > > mantra). > > Yes its that. And its the decision to go back to the mantra. And this > may appear quite automatic. > > >But that doesn't feel volitional either; it > > seems to be invoked automatically in response to the > > ending of a train of thought. > > see above. > > > I'd be hesitant to suggest, in my case, that this has > > anything to do with a more "awakened" perspective. > > It may or may not. The automaticness is not the key distinguishing > factor. Many reptiles, that is just using reptile brain, react to > things "instinctively" -- automatically. As humans, we react to to > many things "by relex" automatically. This does not necessarily > indicate much. > > The feature I was referring to is an understanding / foundational > perspective / experience / lifeview / realization that the intellect > is functioning in its own domain, by its own rules and does not need > "volition" from a "me" --- when an indentity with "being the decision > maker" dissolves. In that, the functioning of the intellect is always > known as automatic. In contrast, in the "I am the doer state" > automatic /reflex actions are there sometimes, and sometimes one feels > "I am the doer" -- acting with volition. >
All this is fascinating but there IS a danger here: that neophyte TMers (or even 33 year veterans like me) might get confused because they don't have the experiences mentioned. It's always good to recall that everyone's meditation is different. In my experience, any given moment of meditation might be radically new, or radically the same as all other moments, so its just not worth worrying about, although of course I do, on occassion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
