On Thursday, 28 September 2000 at 21:45:13 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote:
> I will not provide comments as the below messages are already too
> messy.

It would be nice if you'd adhere to the conventions when you reply,
however.  It's much easier to understand in chronological order.  I've
now had to manually move your comments to below the text to which they

> The issue is this.  I have been cvsup-ing 5.0-Current for months and
> recently I have and these problems.  Within the last 4 weeks.  My
> scsi cables or my adaptec controller had no influence on this since
> recently...

OK, this is new information.

> I don't believe turning on stuff that has no functionality to the
> system should be an issue.  If it is then this is broken.

Agreed, if it is.  We first need to establish that.  You seem to be
missing the point that we don't blame individual components until we
have evidence.

> "People compile daily from -Current" Well I was one of them and I
> don't believe that my system is the problem!

I don't believe anything yet.  You need to find out what the problem
is.  In case you didn't notice it, I've had some problems as well in
the last couple of days.  Follow that thread, it might give you an
idea about how we go about solving problems in -CURRENT.

> On  Thursday, September 28, 2000 8:51 PM, Greg Lehey wrote:
>> On Thursday, 28 September 2000 at 19:54:01 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote:
>>> I have a dual PPro-200 systems.  aha-3950u2 scsi card.  Teflon
>>> cables from scsi-cables.com.  Segate cheetah 4.5gig drive that runs
>>> FreeBSD5.0-Current since it came out.
>> Maybe you should change the teflon cables.

> Remove my teflon cables...  Hmmm... I'll try it but something tells
> me that this is like trying to shoot an arbitrary star in the
> midnight sky.  FreeBSD doesn't like teflon or is it just my
> system???

I'm sorry, this was intended as a reductio ad absurdum.  I consider it
so unlikely that it is the cables that I was drawing a parallel to you
assuming that disabling the IDE drivers was the reason for

>> My personal feeling is that you should take Alfred's advice and try to
>> boot without disabling IDE.  It may or may not work.  If it doesn't,
>> you'll know you're wrong about connecting the two events.  If it does,
>> it'll give you a system which is usable for debugging the problem.
> People keep saying that I am shooting blanks because I haven't
> provided any evidence.  Give me a way to provide evidence and I will
> show you that 2000927-5.0CURRENT has crashed my machine which has
> worked on pretty much every revision of FreeBSD since 3.0-Current!
> The teflon cables and everything...

It looks a little funny now that I've moved your text here, doesn't
it?  See how chronological order changes and clarifies things?  In
case you haven't noticed, I have given you a suggestion immediately
above, but since you replied in a different place, you appear not to
have noticed it.

>> Maybe it's time to remind people about -CURRENT:
>>   Many users compile almost daily from FreeBSD-CURRENT sources, but
>>   there are times when the sources are uncompilable.  The problems are
>>   always resolved, but others can take their place.  On occasion,
>>   keeping up with FreeBSD-CURRENT can be a full-time business.  If you
>>   use -CURRENT, you should be prepared to spend a lot of time keeping
>>   the system running.
>> In particular, note who should be doing the work: the people who have
>> the problem.  It doesn't do any good to thrash around, make
>> unsubstantiated claims and blame other people.  On the contrary, it
>> makes people think you're a jerk.
> As said below...

As said just above, where it belongs.

> "In particular, note who should be doing the work: the people who have
> the problem.  It doesn't do any good to thrash around, make
> unsubstantiated claims and blame other people.  On the contrary, it
> makes people think you're a jerk."

You don't need to repeat it, it's there in the text.

> Since I am complaining then I need to figure out what U have done to
> make 5.0-CURRENT crash??  Well atleast U admit that U do not know
> and U do not care.  So anyone who is using FreeBSD should also not
> care??  This is more screwed up then I thought and people @FreeBSD
> have made this much harder then necessary.

This kind of statement just tends to harden the negative impression
you're already making.  We care, but we don't care enough to do work
for other people when they're just being abusive.  If you want to run
-CURRENT, at least pull your weight.  I won't answer another message
of this nature.

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