Hi,
You said: the Manuals are written by people who know what they're talking about for those that don't. Think writing one is easy? Give it a try. In your spare time, write the user's manual for something you have in your house, such as a home stereo, CD player, or even, yes, a computer game. Don't leave anything out, but make your manual understandable by someone who does not know the device or product you are talking about. Be patient with the user and go slowly in describing. Here's one for you, write a user's manual for a cell phone that can guide a blind person through it's operations easily and in a way that will not confuse them? I dare you. If you try this, you'll be able to see the problem from both sides of the issue. Remember, the reader does not know anything about what you're trying to teach them how to use. I did. I'm talking from experience. I spent 3 months re-writing the jaws 4 manual. Because the guy who I was teaching to use it actually couldn't get to grips with it. So I rerote it and went so far back to basics it would bore the likes of you and me but for someone like him it was necessary. I didn't do it alone. Assisting me I had people who new about the programme, people that taught others how to use it, people who have herd of it but have never seen it or used it. It's foolish to believe that even though I'm the one writing the manual, that I'm going to have a 100% perspective as to what needed to be done. Thus I chose to do it in the way that I did. I was doing all the work, I was sending them via email all their submissions and based on their feedback I would make changes. Or explain why I had written a given thing and accept or reject any advice they gave me. So I'm sorry Charles but yes I will say that a lot of problems that people have, is because of the way that the manuals are written. It's very difficult to go right back to basics and not many people see the benefits of that. The vast majority of manuals I look at now I'm so critical of them you honestly wouldn't believe it. Some of them I can honestly say have left me cringing. Because if the manual is thus badly written what does that say for the product itself? All that time and energy gone into developing that product for it to be let down by it's user documentation. The long and the short of it is, it's all well making sure that your product works, but if you aren't going to spend the time required on the nuts and bolts as in the user documentation, then you may as well not bother at all. If people cannot just pick up and get to grips with something, then a lot of the time they will just put it down again. Because half the problem there is a psycological one. Oh it's me that is stupid I can't understand this bla bla bla. This is where a lot of your fobias actualy come from. And the tech support lines are loving it because you're calling them, being charge a stupendus amount for the privelage just to solve a problem that could have been easily solved in most cases if the manual was written in a way that it was understood by who ever read it no matter from what background. You said: User's manuals are often blamed for some of the problems that people are having. Then again, it is found that people often don't read them. This is in part true. But also it is true to say that considering how in the majority of cases, manuals are written in such a poor fassion, people just don't seem to waste their time on them any more. Just how much is released these days that is just so full of bugs and stupid stuff like that? Not enough time is spent on development of a product and the user documentation is just as much a pert of that development. The quality of work in many ways has slowly and surely gone down hill over the last few years in general. -----Original Message----- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: 30 March 2009 03:03 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] manuals - Re: I give!!!! User's manuals are often blamed for some of the problems that people are having. Then again, it is found that people often don't read them. Manuals are written by people who know what they're talking about for those that don't. Think writing one is easy? Give it a try. In your spare time, write the user's manual for something you have in your house, such as a home stereo, CD player, or even, yes, a computer game. Don't leave anything out, but make your manual understandable by someone who does not know the device or product you are talking about. Be patient with the user and go slowly in describing. Here's one for you, write a user's manual for a cell phone that can guide a blind person through it's operations easily and in a way that will not confuse them? I dare you. If you try this, you'll be able to see the problem from both sides of the issue. Remember, the reader does not know anything about what you're trying to teach them how to use. --- Gun control only controls the guns of lawful citizens while placing them in control of the unlawful ones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Harris" <darren_g_har...@btinternet.com> To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" <gamers@audyssey.org> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] I give!!!! > The trouble is, that to many people just assume that x person can use > a given thing. Anybodies knowledge of a given thing is as only as good > as the experience and training that they have had with it. There's > tons of stuff that I don't know about. And probably won't. that's just > life. We all have to learn and help those who need it. > > I've found especially as I've written my own guides and manuals for > certain things, that a lot of manuals, and this is generic, not aimed > at anybody or anything, but they tend to assume that the end user will > have some knowledge of what ever it is they are trying to use. I had > to learn to go right back to scratch, and write the review and manual > that I did, from the perspective of someone who had never even herd of > the product I was writing about let alone used it. > > Especially when it comes to computers, the fobias that people have is > because of attitudes like, oh you should know this or that. Which can > be expressed directly like as we've seen on this list, or in the > writing of the varius manuals for x product out there. And this really > is half the problem. Doesn't matter whethr you're blind or what ever. > Any product is only as good as the manual that comes with it. If the > documentation isn't written to a high standard, by that I mean to such > a degree that anybody can read and understand it within reason, then > quite honestly, people are going to pay money for x product and never > gain the full benefit from it. Which to be honest is a waste of an > investment. > > -----Original Message----- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] > On Behalf Of Chrissy > Sent: 29 March 2009 10:45 > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] I give!!!! > > > As someone who went blind later in life I totally agree. it is very > hard to try and learn all there is with screenreaders, braille > displays. even more > so because to us who had to deal with all this new stuff later in life > is > like learning to read and write all over. > there are also a lot of sighted people who are not that knowledgeable > about > computers or technical stuff in general. > so be patient with the ones just learning. if a mail seems annoying just > try > and ignore it and move on to the next one. > i got helped on here and other lists many times and appreciate everyone > that did help, even if it was a question asked for the umpteenth time. > if > new inexperienced folks get flamed than that might discourage them from > playing great audiogames altogether and that would be a shame. regards > chrissy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Ward" <thomasward1...@gmail.com> > To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org> > Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 1:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] I give!!!! > > >> Hello Shadow Dragon, >> While I certainly understand your position, your frustration, etc I >> think it is better in the long run if we try to help Anthony rather >> than attacking him. >> In my conversations with Anthony on and off list I discovered we are >> dealing with someone who isn't a very skilled computer user to begin > with. >> Just a few days ago Anthony had a problem selecting items using the > combo >> box on the audiogames.net web site. After talking with him off list I >> discovered he wasn't aware he needed to press enter on the combo box > to >> get Window Eyes to disable MSAA/forms mode so he can use the combo >> box > on >> a web page. To some that sounds like a very stupid mistake, some >> might > >> think of Anthony as an idiot, but he simply has not had the same >> level > of >> training that some of us had. Therefore we have to walk him through > this >> not assuming anything, taking anything for granted, and when giving >> instructions give him detailed instructions to him as a totally new > user >> to the computer. >> Let's put it this way. If you knew someone recently whent blind, gave >> him/her a new computer with a screen reader on it, would you expect > him or >> her to know how to use the screen reader, browse the web, install > games, >> whatever the first day? Probably not. I know I certainly didn't learn > all >> I know over night. I did however work hard to learn all I could about >> computers, and years later I am very skilled at using them. >> >> Shadow Dragon wrote: >> > Most games give system requirements, and installation instructions, >> > and a lot is covered on just about every audiogames page thanks in >> > part to dark, richard and a few others. Had you just taken the time >> > to explore the audiogames website and read some game documentation >> > instead of trying things for about 2 seconds, giving up and acting >> > like a victim like you're doing now, you probably would have been >> > in > >> > business long ago. I can understand that not everyone is a computer >> > jenius, and odds are I don't have too many friends here due in part >> > to a fiasco on my part a while back, but I don't like to see others >> > blamed for one person's falts. So take it easy, quit playing the >> > role of a victim and you'll get a lot farther in what you try to >> > do. > >> > Appologies to the mods for borderline flaming. >> > >> > Having said that there are a lot of online games and offline text >> > games such as world of legends that can be played without framework >> > and other such things, as well as very basic games like tournament >> > and probably a few others. Usually the truly good ones have some >> > requirements attached to them though. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your >> subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your > subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.11.31/2028 - Release Date: > 03/28/09 07:16:00 > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.11.31/2028 - Release Date: > 03/28/09 07:16:00 > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.11.31/2028 - Release Date: 03/29/09 16:56:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.11.31/2029 - Release Date: 03/29/09 16:56:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
