I must admit, I do see your point about characters wearing and using different items, ---- as a pretty heavy going single player bod I probably didn't think of that. Actually I wouldn't say I either love or hate KoL, ---- it's really an in betwene thing.

It's almost the case that I see it's clear advantages, but then do not find enough substance in the plot and game world to keep me going, ---- and yet in a sense i stil regret not persisting with the game more.

On the puzles front, this is why I admire systems like the invisiclues of the old Infocom games, ---- systems which can just give you greater and greater nudges until you get something. This stil gives you some sense of discovery and satisfaction, but doesn't get you frustrated.

I've actually seen my Gm in mutants and monsterminds pulling similar stunts through npcs when we've all been stuck on an in gamemystery.

I'd say my favourite sorts of puzles are those found in games like Sryth or gamebooks. Puzles where rather than guessing an obscure reference or odd syntacs, if you pay attention to the story and world, talk to every npc, visit every location and occasionally put two and two together, you will find the answer.

A great example of this sort of puzle occurs in the Snes rpg Secret of mana.

About a quarter of the way through the game, you visit the desert town of Cakariko. They have no water. This is initially thought to be a problem with the fire elemental living close by, ---- but after you fix that (something which has to be done to progress in the game), they stil don't have their water back.

Much much muuuuuuch later on, when you can fly around the world, you can speak to an npc living in a lighthouse, one of the things he will tell you is water is attracted to a sea hair's tale.

A litle later, you can visit an island wear a sea hair's tale is being sold (admittedly for quite a lot of cash, though by that stage in the game you usually have money to spend0.

If you buy the item and then return to Cakariko desert, you can use it to attract water and fill their well.

they'll give you a status effect reducing item, ---- but this isn't entirely necessary for completing the game, it's just one of those litle quests.

these are my favourite sorts of puzles, those intimiately connected with the world and it's plot.

this is again, probably why I'm a litle uncertain of KoL, because of it's less substansive plot.

Beware the Grue!


----- Original Message ----- From: "Shadow Dragon" <elementalult...@hotmail.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Sryth question the eye

I can see where you're coming from, and like I said in my last message, basically if you don't like it, you're never going to like it. One thing we have in common dark is that we're both hardcore exploration fanatics. I'm not sure what your views on puzzles are, but generally I end up looking them up anyway, since in my experience the majority of puzzles, especially in text games, are similar to those in KoL, requiring either guess the syntax or very simplistic thinking disguised as overthinking. KoL is a game built more on humor and references more than actual plot, though it does have a pretty solid plotline, if not a little weird. In a sense I guess its more like grand theft auto, in that technically the plot is just you taking missions from the council and completing them rather than actually advancing a storyline, perhaps that's why you can't get into it. Anyway, this is just speculation, KoL's definitely one of those games that you either love or hate, there doesn't seem to be much of an in between. As for the item count, that does get a bit crazy, but I'd personally prefer a massive item count like you see in many MMO's over say, sryth's item count, where one of two options present themselves, everyone's either wearing the highest end equipment they can get without donating, or the highest they can get with tokens. It just makes each character seem more unique if everyone's not wearing the same stuff, eating the same stuff every day, etc. Anyway I'm really not sure why I'm writing all this out since I'm not trying to convince you to play, just wanted to say my piece I guess.

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