It's not a Hal vs Jaws issue, ---- unless Jaws suddenly has the ability to interpret image maps.

Sinse other webmasters have done similar things accessibility wise, ----- heck, the webmaster of Chronicles of Arborell has created an entire other version of his game written completely from scratch.


I'm going on the basis that written in the code must be something which identifies the position of each room precisely in the dungeon anyway, ----- and why not add an access feature?

If it's simply a matter of interpreting a complex page view that indeed comes down to screen reader ifficiency, however this case is purely to do with in game graphics.

What you do reguarding warriors 2 is up to you. I certainly have no intentions of removing the game from the database purely because of this issue, but if it's necessary to go into such details creating dungeon maps sinse the webmaster isn't willing to help make the lives of Vi players as easy as those of sited ones, I do feel a note is necessary.

Beware the Grue!

Dark.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shadow Dragon" <elementalult...@hotmail.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?


I suppose its your choice weather or not to play. This to me looks similar to lands of hope, where it might have been reasonable to do something like this had they done it from the start, but going through every single dungeon from the beginning of the game and adding things to them would be exceedingly harsh. You always have to see it from the coder's standpoint, not just by how easy it seems to do something. Not only that but warriors2 is also a second language game, its entirely possible the GM may or may not understand what you're asking him to do. I honestly think we shouldn't react so viciously to accessibility things. It happens far too often, and 99% of the time there's a workaround if you're willing to put forth a little time and effort, or a lot of time and effort as the case may be. If people don't think a game is worth the effort to find and use the workarounds that's fine, but I usually can't see blaming it on the developer, especially not if it's a developer who's done other things in the name of accessibility and is obviously at least somewhat open to suggestions for how to make his game more playable. I've played every game I could find from sryth and Kingdom of Loathing, easily two of the most accessible games out there, to Lands of Hope and 3 skulls, two of the most inaccessible due to the use of mouseovers, lots of cursor routing and wandering and a ton of graphical things, and I've enjoyed them all to a point. Its worth it to me to find ways to play them. I can say with certainty that warriors2's dungeons aren't inaccessible, I've made it all the way through the castle of darkness and lapped as a titan, and I've also made it through the gorgon villages sewers and gargoth's tomb. It just takes a bit of patience and some use of the graphics that come up on the map that are clickable, like fountains, doors, levers, etc to help you get around and back to certain points in the dungeon. Perhaps the tone of this message is a bit more offensive and blunt than I'd like, and perhaps its an issue I can't really look into, like differences in screen reader. From posts on this list, jaws is one of the better screen readers out there for handling things graphically, so perhaps that's the problem. Either way I for one will continue to enjoy warriors2 when I play it, as well as other quote, inaccessible games. Its all a matter of how much work you're willing to put into them to be able to play and enjoy good games.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "dark" <d...@xgam.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:11 PM
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?

I will admit spacial memory isn't exactly my forte, however the clear access difference betwene having a full graphical map which shows you precisely where you've been in a dungeon, and just having a choice of directions of where to go in each room (which are very generically described so there's no way of telling your position from that), should be obvious.

It's not the size of the dungeons I mind, it's this total lack of information, and the unwillingness of the Gm to even Countinance any sort of access suggestion, ---- especially after I've had some good responses from him on things like labeling in game buttons.

Obviously accessibility is something which is okay, so long as it doesn't actually involve doing anything.

That's why I'm not precisely happy about this, and why I'm considering a correct response.

Beware the Grue!

Dark.



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