hmmm I may have an older version but hal does not always show me everything and 
it chooses to crash loads more than jaws.
hal has its uses though.
I suppose I navigate via headdings loads these days.
At 02:29 p.m. 1/12/2009, you wrote:
>Fair enough sean.
>
>I admit, I found the jaws method of totally restructuring web pages not to be 
>to my taste at all, ---- especially for online games which feature links in 
>specific places at the top or bottom to be helpful to the player.
>
>I'll also say, it makes things easier when i've got my sighted friends here 
>doing things with the mouse, to be able to flick Hal off and on as needed and 
>have the screen display web pages, ---- or indeed anything else, in a way 
>which they can also read quite successfully.
>
>I've had some fun playing through online gamebooks like project.aon using 
>these methods.
>
>Again though, this is probably just a case of me being much more used to doing 
>things with Hal.
>
>Beware the grue!
>
>Dark.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "shaun everiss" <shau...@xtra.co.nz>
>To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:49 AM
>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen Readers and Games
>
>
>>hmmm I like the way jaws handles the web, just like a standard page, also how 
>>it handles advanced word and excell functions.
>>However I don't care about how it handles winamp or eudora and some other 
>>apps.
>>At 01:44 p.m. 1/12/2009, you wrote:
>>>I actually prefer both the way hal Handles virtual focus and screen 
>>>recognition and interaction myself, ---- I actually found the jaws multiple 
>>>modes system rather confusing.
>>>
>>>In Hal for example, it's so natural for me to be in virtual focus for web 
>>>pages, I'm quite familiar with all it's short cuts and nuances, and thus 
>>>when I have to use it for a game like smugglers, or for an unusual 
>>>application, ---- it's controls for reading and navigation are very 
>>>familiar, ---- even if the html specific stuff isn't available.
>>>
>>>Likewise, I don't mind the double control system either.
>>>
>>>These though, are very much simply part of me having been such a long time 
>>>Hal user, ---- heck, i stil remember when what later became virtual focus 
>>>and is now the dolphin curser was called screen reading mode, and could do 
>>>nothing more than literally read what text was on screen in the currently 
>>>focused window, ---- and not interact with it, ---- that was back in Hal 
>>>version 3.
>>>
>>>I was also amused (and a litle disturbed), when Dolphin announced that 
>>>version 10 would no longer come with the version four keyset, sinse they 
>>>felt that keyset was no longer needed as keys had been standardized for so 
>>>long, ---- though could stil be dwnloaded from teir sie.
>>>
>>>I had to laugh, sinse I stil remember upgrading from version 4 to version 5 
>>>9 years ago, ---- and after trying the version four keyset, deciding it'd be 
>>>more worth my while to get used to the new version 5 keys than persist with 
>>>the version 4 ones which didn't seem to let me access some of version 5's 
>>>new features.
>>>
>>>That's quite scary in a way!
>>>
>>>Beware the Grue!
>>>
>>>Dark.
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "peter Mahach" <piterm...@gmail.com>
>>>To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:58 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen Readers and Games
>>>
>>>
>>>>well
>>>>let's just say you could call me a screen reader expert or close to that. I 
>>>>worked with nearly everything available on windows and had a few 
>>>>experiences with orca on the gnome desktop.
>>>>when I started out I was running wineyes 4.5 and needless to say the 
>>>>control panel was very! confusing,  the option names sorta weird. 
>>>>especially the keyboard echo. instead of having 4 levels you have 1 long 
>>>>list with keys, words, both and then keys, words and both with out 
>>>>interrupt instead of putting these 2 separately.
>>>>I also at first had troubles applying changes globally, but as for day to 
>>>>day use (when I'm not digging in the thing) window-eyes was all in all a 
>>>>plezent experience to work with.
>>>>then when I ended up on vista I started to use jaws daily. it was an easier 
>>>>thing to learn I'll admit and I got used to it quite a lot.
>>>>dolphin's products, hmm. have these at school. I find them weird. the hot 
>>>>keys are especially confusing, sometimes requiring left, or specifrically, 
>>>>right, control, making me getting hal announcing the key instead of 
>>>>performing the function I expected it to do. I do, however, like its... uh. 
>>>>what was it called. verbosity schemes I think. it allows full modification 
>>>>of just about anything the thing says. for instance I changed it to say 
>>>>checked/unchecked instead of its default selected/unselected on checkboxes, 
>>>>that sort of thing. I wish though they made a seaprate buffer for msaa 
>>>>content instead of using their mouse emulation with some DOM thrown in to 
>>>>do the job.
>>>>I did also test system access and nvda and I find I don't have to comment, 
>>>>the 2 are really nice readers.
>>>>sorry if I went off topic at 1 point or another and sorry for the long 
>>>>message, and take care!
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Hayden Presley" <hdpres...@hotmail.com>
>>>>To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" <gamers@audyssey.org>
>>>>Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 1:51 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen Readers and Games
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Really? That's a feature I've come to like in JAWS myself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature 
>>>>database 4333 (20090813) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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