Very good post, Willem.  As you said, the problem with VB6 isn't that
it's a bad programming language.  The problem is that people can't
play the games.

It doesn't matter that VB6 is a great platform.  It doesn't matter
that developers have dev tools and big libraries and tons of
experience with it.  It doesn't matter that the games are free.

What matters is that people can't play the games, and that every year
there will be fewer and fewer people who can play them.  Developers
have three options:

1) Do nothing and watch the number of players dwindle to zero;
2) Write emulators and/or libraries to allow the games to work on new platforms;
3) Change languages.

All the other arguments are irrelevant.

Dennis Towne
Alter Aeon MUD

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Willem Venter <> wrote:
> Hi Jeremy.
> You completely missed my point. As an end user, I don't care if you
> use smoke signals to code your games, as long as I can run them on a
> normal pc. Up to now it has usually been possible, all be it with a
> little effort in some cases.
> I really like all your games. I spent hours on lunar animals alone the
> past weeks, not to mention the other free games from Jim Kitchen that
> I would hate to lose, but if they don't work, they don't work and
> that's where what language you use becomes the end user's problem, as
> I won't be able to run your games if I get a new arm-based pc for
> christmas.
> That is only half of the issue. I spent hundreds of dollars on
> non-free audio games which will also stop working in the immediate
> future from what I can deduce from the information microsoft have been
> releasing the passed while.
> Again, it has nothing to do with you or the language that you chose to
> use, and everything to do with incompatibility. Please stop being
> oversensitive.
> On 6/9/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky <> wrote:
>>     Well it seems that while I've been sleeping, this argument over
>> programming languages has flared up once again.  It seems like this happens
>> at some point each month, and that is exactly why some of my fellow VB6
>> users view it as attacks rather than suggestions.  In other aspects of life,
>> you've undoubtedly had someone disagree with you about something, and they
>> felt compelled to share their view in an effort to get you to do things
>> their way.  That's normal, and should be expected during life.  If you
>> listened to their opinion, but stuck to your own, at what point does it
>> become inappropriate for them to bring it up again and again?  Perhaps
>> you'll listen to the same arguments 3 or 4 times, but when the other person
>> is compelled to repeatedly push their opinion on you, it becomes a hostile
>> situation.
>>     I'm not writing this to any one specific individual, so please let me
>> make that clear.  This is being written, generally, to the long list of
>> people who are still pushing the same views after months and months.
>> Actually, this has probably been going on for a lot longer, but I haven't
>> been on audyssey for very long.
>>     I want to dispel this idea that we VB6 users are only using it because
>> we don't know any other languages.  I feel that view paints us as ignorant
>> programmers who are only rejecting your view because we don't know any
>> better.  This is not the case, and I, for one, happen to know just as many
>> languages as the people who don't want me using VB6.  Admittedly I would be
>> rusty with most of them, since I haven't used them in years, but I prefer to
>> be viewed as a peer rather than a programming novice who isn't experienced
>> enough to know what's best for him.  From my experience, there is a
>> stereotypical progression in how programmers think.  When they start out,
>> they stick to what they know because it is all they know.  Like a child
>> clinging to pool floaties, it is scary to first venture away from what is
>> keeping you safe.  As the programmers begins learning more, they become
>> excited by everything that's out there, and so they quickly begin learning
>>  everything they can about everything!  This is usually when a programmer
>> will fill their "belt" with several programming languages they have learned
>> to use.  When they've branched out sufficiently, they begin to see the need
>> to narrow their focus back down, and so they will use friends and society to
>> form strong opinions about why one/some languages and methods are superior.
>> This becomes their justification for abandoning their previous way of
>> thinking, and often leads programmers to become so opinionated that they
>> will attack others who do not agree with them.  The programmers in this
>> category, and believe me I've known more than I'd like to, defend their
>> views with the same level of passion you see on protest picket lines,
>> political debates, and religious arguments.  Personally I think it is a
>> terrible shame, but programmers or not, people are still people, and people
>> suck.  Like an old person who eventually stops caring what other people
>> think,
>>  sooner or later programmers break out of their opinionated shell.  When you
>> are so passionate about a single view, you may be able to admit their is
>> another side, but you can't ever weigh it in in an unbiased way.  A person
>> who is stuck focused on compatibility issues is going to view everything
>> through those goggles.  For my fellow VB6 programmers, we simply have to
>> accept that everything and anything we say will be viewed from that
>> perspective and we stand no chance in changing it.
>>     Countless times in movies we see the diplomat and the war general facing
>> some situation.  No matter how events unfold, good or bad, the diplomat will
>> twist it and view it as an opportunity to grow and build relationships, and
>> the war general will twist and view it as a trap or security risk.  These
>> are common examples of how people all into a particular way of thinking and
>> are then trapped to interpret all situations in that way.  While the movies
>> entertain us with the conflict between those characters, and how they each
>> view each situation so differently, but in the end neither is able to change
>> the other.  They simply have to accept how each other are.
>>     The people who are focused on compatibility are not going to be swayed.
>> The VB6 users who have already heard opinions about changing, yet remained
>> firm, are not going to be swayed by those same arguments revived a month
>> later.  We have to stop trying to convince each other to change, since each
>> perspective has value and needs to be present for a healthy overall
>> community.  I believe it is important for me to focus on rapid development,
>> but I don't constantly post long messages telling other developers that
>> taking 6 months on a game is unnecessary.  I could easily push my own
>> opinion onto others, but I have long ago moved past the drive to do so.  If
>> my personal views put importance on rapid development, my mission should not
>> be to push others to develop faster, my mission should be to fill that
>> position myself.  People who strongly feel we need more multiplayer games
>> shouldn't harass others to make them, they should work on doing it
>> themselves.  And
>>  finally, people who are focused on compatibility should implement it within
>> their own work rather than pushing the view on to others.  Giving an
>> opinion, in hopes of getting others to take compatibility issues into
>> consideration, is perfectly fine, but when you've already stated your view
>> it doesn't need to be brought up over and over.
>>     The only argument I will speak on directly, is the fear that eventually
>> things will change and none of the old VB6 games will be playable.  When
>> that happens, the environment will be different than it is now, so why
>> assume we would continue to hold the exact same views as we do now?  I can't
>> speak for my comrades, but I do what I do because I have looked at where the
>> community is (the current landscape) and formed my opinions about what it
>> currently needs.  As the landscape changes, so will my opinions about what
>> it needs, and my projects will reflect that.  When I feel it is time to
>> change, I will stop using VB6.  Please acknowledge that I am capable of
>> making my own decisions, that I will change when I think it's time, and
>> Please stop back seat driving.  Thank you.
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