Hi Thomas and all,
I'm not sure what your angle is with putting down everyone that uses
a different language than you do, but I think its time for a reality
check man, caues I for one am sick of hearing it.
In your latest post to Dark, you state that you use the language that
you do because you have the skills and your not lazy.
So the only thing to infer there is the rest of us are lazy and
incompetent at least to some level compared to yourself.
Indirectly, I can say the output of other developers using so called
lazy programming, with their incompetent skills has produced an amazing
body of work. Have you taken a look at what David Greenwood has put out
in the past 10 years with his incompetent skills, inferior programming
language and low level work ethic?
A rhetorical question to be sure, but anyone that has kept up with
accessible gaming the past ten years knows Greenwood has simply got it
done with what he has, whether you think he has inferior tools and
skills or not. The proof is in the pudding.
As a second example, take a look at what Jeremy has done in just
the past 2 months, it speaks for itself quite loudly.
And speaking for myself, In the fall of 2005, I knew next to nothing
about programming an accessible game, in 2007 I released a game that was
as fully featured as any game out there and more featured than most,
with a fully playable online mode, a track creator, mouse support, etc.
that ended up winning Blind Bargains game of the year, for what thats worth.
I don't mention that to blow my own horn, just to let you know I take
grave offense at being passivly aggressivly labeled as a lazy programmer
with inferior skills, using a toolset simply because I don't have either
the determination or the intelligence to use the language you prefer.
If we wanted to get down to a work ethic here, one could start
picking apart the amount of time put into MOTA, which when you get down
to it is a simple platform arcade game that an experienced programmer
should have had out in far less than a year, cross platform or not.
If that seems harsh, so be it, but I've just about had it with the
jabs at the other developers on this list, and I know from talking to
others that I'm not alone.
Being moderator of this list and posting a great percentage of the
words sent to this list does not give you license to insult the rest of us.
So from a guy that has a lot of games out there that have both sold
and are being played, why not knock it off man, cause I don't think
anyone is buying the line that you are the top of the crop as a game
developer here anymore.
I respect you as a game developer, and I look forward to MOTA when
its done, but working on a game for 4 years does not a judge of others make.
For you guys on list that just want to read about games and are tired
of this crap, I do apologize, but Thomas has been given several hints
about people's annoyance at this attitude lately, and the shots across
the bow don't seem to be registering, and the other developers on list
shouldn't have to grit their teeth and take it.
Very sincerely,
Che
On 7/19/2011 7:59 PM, Thomas Ward wrote:
Hi Dark,
That's very true, and that's why languages like Java, C# .Net, Visual
Basic .Net, Python, etc exists. Most developers realise that writing
an application from scratch in a language like C++ is far too time
consuming for the average developer and project. In the corperate
world if a company needs an interface for a new database or a report
writer etc they aren't going to want to take any more time than
absolutely necessary or pay any more money than necessary to have that
program developed. Since languages like Java, C#. or VB already have a
good portion of the low-level stuff done a developer can rapidly
produce the application in question with a lot less time and effort
making his/her corperate bosses happy in the process.
For example, let's take the .Net Framework. Microsoft created the .Net
Framework for three reasons. One, it wraps all of the core Windows
APIs, and puts them under a single API that is now shared by C++, C#,
J#, and VB. Two, it makes it easier to design a program that will
operate on XP, Vista, Windows 7, and Windows Server, without requiring
any kind of recompilation when targeting multiple Windows platforms
and CPUs at once. Three, it is fully object oriented, and moduler,
making it extremely easy to take existing classes and code to build
applications rapidly using a common code base. Finally, the .Net
runtime contains a builtin garbage collecter that frequently monitors
when blocks of memory are no longer being used/referenced and cleans
the garbage out of memory making your application run more
efficiently. The best part of the garbage collecter is the developer
can't be a complete slob when it comes to memory management and
cleaning upbecause it takes the issue of memory management out of the
developers hands and does it automatically in the background weather
you do memory cleanup yourself or not. This largely eliminates issues
like memory leaks because its mistakes like that where the garbage
collecter will hand the programmer a safety net to fall back on if
he/she does a poor job cleaning up after shutting down the app.
So, in short, what you say is correct. Over all, it is a good idea to
use a rapid development language if we are talking about a time
sensative application, or the developer is lazy and just wants to get
it done. However, I'm neither one of those types. I'm something of a
programming purest, and I chose C++ because I have the skills, and in
the long run it is a better language for what I need to do. I'm
willing to spend more time doing it right rather than quickly put it
together and sell it. I'm willing to put the extra effort into making
sure most of my code can be cross-platform compatible so I can produce
Mac and Linux ports in the future. I know that isn't too important to
a lot of people on this list, but it is important to me personally. If
people don't like it that's tough.
Cheers!
On 7/17/11, dark<d...@xgam.org> wrote:
Hi Tom.
Fair enough if you've got precompiled code to use, and also i do see the
logic with text.
however it stil seems that in c you need a lot of preparation and things
written that are done for you in other languages, which adds to the time of
developement overall.
Beware the Grue!
Dark.
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