On 1/6/02 12:48 PM, "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 04:01, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: >>> Maybe we could just start having sub-catgories within Jakarta. So >>> basically Jakarta is still the top level project but we have a software >>> map underneath it that categorizes project (ie tools, xml parserns, >>> servers, whatever). >> >> How then would this work? What about the non-Java stuff in XML land? >> Where does that go? > > You mean there is non-java stuff in xml land? .... much like there is > non-java stuff in jakarta-land? Why does it have to go anywhere? I noted earlier there in non-java stuff here. I bring this up because this thread is *specifically* (at this point) about modifying the charter to strike the word 'server' to open the scope to include non-server technology. Now, since you agreed this was a good thing with your "+1" I assumed that you think that the specific of the charter means something. Therefore 'Java' is something we should consider, as we are then again automatically out of scope with out own charter. I personally don't care as much about legalistic conformance to the charter per se - its an important guideline, but the community is what really matters. You can't force volunteers anyway. > >> Again, you might think the above is flip, but you are talking about >> modifying the charter here... > > The charter was modified ages ago. Sure the words haven't changed but it has > been a long time since jakarta project was actually true to the words in its > charter ... see Ant the "server-side" project And I keep bringing that up for consideration every few months. Even just at the level of organizing the site better to help people visiting us to see what we do. > > So instead of accepting that we violate scope with more than half the jakarta > projects people took to inventing reasons to keep them at jakarta. ie Ant > became acceptable because it was a tool that could be used to build > serverside projects. How silly is that reason? I am not disagreeing. > I have always been of the opinion that scope is a STUPID way to manage this > sort of thing because it will inevitably lead to stifling of community or > arbitrary violation. Rather than delluding ourselves wouldn't better to > disregard scope and instead have a "focus". > > We "focus" on java products. Traditionally they are serverside and would > likely to remain so (because you need a PMC sponsor/champion for new projects > and most PMC members are serverside peeps). However I would have no problem > if someone wanted to have other similarly focused projects - even if they > were clienside or written in c or whatever. And with the recent suggestion to get rid of the PMC and just do it via group consensus, then what? No more PMC champion. And without the PMC, I suspect no more Jakarta if Roy hasn't changed his mind. > For instance if IBM wanted to donate jikes to Apache and there was enough > community to support it - would you knock it back because it was C? or would > you reclassify it as a compiler used to build serverside java apps? No, I think it would be great. However, it's not clear that we dump everything with a .java file into Jakarta though. That would be another great 'anchor project' to build a new project around. > What happens if the Jext or JEdit editors (or the merge if it ever occurs) > wanted to join in Jakarta and had a like-minded community - would you knock > it back because it was clientside? or would you reclassify it as something > used to write serverside apps? I would again try to get is to consider that we have a great chance to use a strong community to anchor a new project. Jakarta can't grow forever. When do you decide to actually step up and try to make a change? I hope it's *before* the outside perception of Jakarta changes from that of a place of high-quality projects with strong communities and colorful characters, to Apache Sourceforge for Java. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Be a giant. Take giant steps. Do giant things... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
