On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 05:08, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> >> Again, you might think the above is flip, but you are talking about
> >> modifying the charter here...
> >
> > The charter was modified ages ago. Sure the words haven't changed but it
> > has been a long time since jakarta project was actually true to the words
> > in its charter ... see Ant the "server-side" project
>
> And I keep bringing that up for consideration every few months. Even just
> at the level of organizing the site better to help people visiting us to
> see what we do.
theres no better way to get something done except by doing it yourself ;)
> > I have always been of the opinion that scope is a STUPID way to manage
> > this sort of thing because it will inevitably lead to stifling of
> > community or arbitrary violation. Rather than delluding ourselves
> > wouldn't better to disregard scope and instead have a "focus".
> >
> > We "focus" on java products. Traditionally they are serverside and would
> > likely to remain so (because you need a PMC sponsor/champion for new
> > projects and most PMC members are serverside peeps). However I would have
> > no problem if someone wanted to have other similarly focused projects -
> > even if they were clienside or written in c or whatever.
>
> And with the recent suggestion to get rid of the PMC and just do it via
> group consensus, then what?
I must have missed that bit. The PMC serves a useful purpose (effectively
policing/fixing things when it is absiolutely necessary and encouragiung
growth in the "Apache Spirit")
> No more PMC champion. And without the PMC, I
> suspect no more Jakarta if Roy hasn't changed his mind.
> > For instance if IBM wanted to donate jikes to Apache and there was enough
> > community to support it - would you knock it back because it was C? or
> > would you reclassify it as a compiler used to build serverside java apps?
>
> No, I think it would be great. However, it's not clear that we dump
> everything with a .java file into Jakarta though. That would be another
> great 'anchor project' to build a new project around.
So I keep hearing everyone say and I watch with amusement as every new
project is brought to Jakarta ;)
Personally I think that jakarta is the only place that has the presence to
actually achieve something like that. Eclipse/netbeans are too vendor
specific, sourceforge is not a community, GNU people generally consider java
"a blight upon the free software world" or at least their leader does, Linux
people don't like it because it is OS-agnostic (and they want linux to be a
required component rather than one of a bunch).
> Jakarta can't grow forever.
Why not ?
> When do you decide to actually step up and try to make a change?
Never if you think they are fine as they are ;)
> I hope
> it's *before* the outside perception of Jakarta changes from that of a
> place of high-quality projects with strong communities and colorful
> characters, to Apache Sourceforge for Java.
With the the high threshold of entry I doubt jakarta will ever be in the same
category as sourceforge - I can't see that as anything but a strawman that is
brought up every now and again ;)
--
Cheers,
Pete
Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, and a dark side, and
it binds the universe together ...
-- Carl Zwanzig
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