L4D is derived from CS:S code-wise and asset-wise. There are cs_assault, de_nuke, etc. props in the L4D VPKs.
2009/5/14 Rodrigo 'r2d2rigo' Diaz <[email protected]> > > > > b) Do any of the Source game packs that allow you to play a mod made > > with the SDK *not* include CSS these days? > > > > Orange Box doesn't, nor does L4D ;) > > 2009/5/14 Jed <[email protected]> > > > Yeah but... > > > > a) You need another Source game to be able to play the mod anyway so > > Valve are getting a sale right here. > > b) Do any of the Source game packs that allow you to play a mod made > > with the SDK *not* include CSS these days? > > > > I'd say that maybe 85% of the time someone with the relevant "base" > > games to play your mod probably has CSS installed anyway. If you want > > to use CSS content in an unmodified form, then yes, just mount the GCF > > and make it a requirement for the mod. If you're making derived model > > then it will be necessary to ship with your mod. > > > > I think as well you have to think a bit beyond "he stole my bike!" - > > stopping this kind of derivative work stifles innovation and puts > > people off modding. I'd say at least 75% of the mods I've seen out > > there use modified content from other Source games in one form or > > another. As it's being used for a Source game, your in a way "keeping > > it in the family" and there's also the follow on of tying a playing to > > Steam, exposure to other games and maybe leading to more sales. Also > > don't forget that games like CSS, DoDS and TF2 all started out as > > mods. It's not in Valves interest to stifle this kind of derivative > > work - especially when its non-profit and could potentially lead them > > to their next-big-hit. > > > > As I said, I think Valve "get" this and are forward thinking enough to > > see that this sort of incestuous breeding of content across their > > games is actually a good thing. > > > > - Jed > > > > > > 2009/5/14 Julian Moschüring <[email protected]>: > > > I agree, but your second point implies that you mount, in this case, > the > > > CS:S content, which was the question which started this thread. :-) > > > Perhaps one of the main reason someone plays your mod is that the > models > > > are so great. If you don't mount the CS:S content you would take money > > > from valve because if you had mounted it some people would have bought > > > CS:S to play your mod... mmh > > > > > > I would mount the content and publish the mod with the model. You could > > > also check if the content is mountable and if not use some standard > > > model instead of the CS:S ones. > > > > > > Jed schrieb: > > >> I think the great questions are: > > >> > > >> Is it hurting them? > > >> Is it worth them taking legal action? > > >> > > >> As has been pointed out, if you are just borrowing a few low-key (i.e > > >> not character/player) models such as props you're not really giving > > >> away the whole CSS game nor are you really damaging sales. > > >> > > >> Secondly, if borrowing a few models helps you get your free mod out > > >> the door, it might well prompt a player to purchase say the Orange Box > > >> to be able to play your mod - $$$ for Valve. > > >> > > >> Thirdly, the legal costs of taking any modder to task for borrowing a > > >> few props for his Source mod is going to be far in excess of their > > >> market value. > > >> > > >> >From my experience of dealing with Valve first hand I like to think > > >> their a level headed bunch of chaps and their attitude is that if > > >> you're not "taking the piss" with borrowed/reworked content or using > > >> it outside of a Source mod then it's acceptable. Of course that's my > > >> opinion and not fact. > > >> > > >> Then again I think it's a sad reflection on the litigious society of > > >> today if a few modders would be stomped on from trying to learn and > > >> innovate for fear of legal repercussion. > > >> > > >> - Jed > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected]>: > > >> > > >>> Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of > their > > >>> works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only > use > > a > > >>> small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot > > >>> substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can > > quality > > >>> as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in > > court, > > >>> and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. > The > > same > > >>> argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't > > recommend > > >>> doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use small > > >>> amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the > > content > > >>> from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which > > increases > > >>> loadtimes. > > >>> > > >>> Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the > > gameinfo.txt, I > > >>> had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod > > successfully, > > >>> even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, but > > still. > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Julian Moschüring" <[email protected]> > > >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > > [email protected]> > > >>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM > > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" > > >>>> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of a > > >>>> computer thats okay? :-) > > >>>> > > >>>> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make > > sure > > >>>> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you > > provide. > > >>>> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do > it > > >>>> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and > > modify > > >>>> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will > > >>>> complain about this. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: > > >>>> > > >>>>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your > mod. > > The > > >>>>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to > be > > >>>>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you > modify > > a > > >>>>> few > > >>>>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod > folder > > that > > >>>>> will override the CS:S content. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to play > > your > > >>>>> mod > > >>>>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or > > two), > > >>>>> you > > >>>>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their > > materials, > > >>>>> and > > >>>>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any > extra > > >>>>> .gcf > > >>>>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine for > > small > > >>>>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for > > Fair > > >>>>> Use > > >>>>> because: > > >>>>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works > > >>>>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products > > >>>>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't limit > > >>>>> Valve's > > >>>>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S > > >>>>> - You do not earn any money from their works > > >>>>> - (You edited their works to some degree) > > >>>>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, as > > long > > >>>>> as > > >>>>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the > contents > > of > > >>>>> a > > >>>>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is > mounting > > the > > >>>>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <[email protected]> > > >>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" > > >>>>> <[email protected]> > > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM > > >>>>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include modifications > > of > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>> said models in my mod. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the > > legal > > >>>>>> aspect? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > >>>>>> please visit: > > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > >>>>> please visit: > > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>>> please visit: > > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- Thanks, - Saul. _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
