The worst part? I agree the Joost.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joost van kempen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content fds fdsfdsfsfsfsfs > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:29:24 +0200 > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > I would, but I couldn't find a copy of it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Leighton" <[email protected]> > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:57 PM > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > >> Have you read the agreement that accompanies the SDK? >> >> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: >>> I just read the Steam Subscriber Agreement ( >>> http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ ) and it said >>> nothing >>> about .GCF files or using unmounted content. However, it defines "Steam >>> Software" as "software and other content and updates", and restricts you >>> from >>> >>> "with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, >>> photocopy, >>> reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, >>> disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any >>> proprietary notices or labels from the Steam Software or any software >>> accessed via Steam" >>> >>> Other agreements with Valve might apply, which I have forgotten about, >>> or >>> didn't read because they shouldn't cover copyright, such as the Steam >>> Online >>> Conduct ruleset, or the Valve Privacy Policy. >>> >>> The definition of Steam Software is unclear, and doesn't specify whether >>> it >>> includes the specific game content or not, but if it doesn't, the game >>> content is fully covered by US Copyright Laws. Again, thus it could >>> qualify >>> as Fair Use (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use for more >>> information) >>> because the works are non-comerical, only uses a bit of Valve's work >>> CS:S >>> as >>> a whole, (educational purposes can apply to GuildHall mods for >>> instance), >>> and that a mod using a CS:S model will not harm or limit Valve's >>> marketing >>> or sales. >>> >>> Again, I have seen quite a few mods that utilizes content extracted from >>> the >>> .gcf files, such as TF2 or CS:S content, but I am yet to hear Valve >>> complain >>> about such usage. Note that Valve Employees probably will not respond to >>> any >>> questions regarding this, as they are not allowed to act officially for >>> Valve without permission. If you really care, do mail the copyright >>> department of Valve and ask. Of course, using a lot of CS:S content >>> (such >>> as >>> binaries and maps) is not fair use, as it will be an illegal copy of the >>> game (perhaps even stand-alone.) >>> >>> In conclusion, the Steam Subscriber Agreement doesn't directly prohibit >>> you >>> from extract and shipping content from the .GCF files, and if you do it >>> carefully, it could count as Fair Use, and people on this list states >>> that >>> Valve doesn't care (which doesn't make it legal). I don't recommend >>> doing >>> so >>> though, because it's questionably legal, but it's your decision. >>> >>> - Sortie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Olly" <[email protected]> >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content >>> >>> >>> >>>> If its in the EULA (which I think it is) that says that you cannot use >>>> unmounted content. Then you just shouldn't unless you have consent from >>>> Valve. >>>> Downloading music is illigal, and that's just copying data. I also >>>> wouldn't >>>> make any money from doing so. >>>> >>>> Emailing them would have been a much easier/accurate way to get an >>>> answer. >>>> >>>> 2009/5/14 Saul Rennison <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>>> If it is actually illegal Valve will confront you and politely ask you >>>>> to >>>>> remove the copyrighted content, then when you do everything's OK. No >>>>> trouble! >>>>> >>>>> 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of >>>>>> their >>>>>> works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only >>>>>> use >>>>>> a >>>>>> small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot >>>>>> substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can >>>>>> >>>>> quality >>>>> >>>>>> as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in >>>>>> >>>>> court, >>>>> >>>>>> and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. >>>>>> The >>>>>> same >>>>>> argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't >>>>>> recommend >>>>>> doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use small >>>>>> amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the >>>>>> >>>>> content >>>>> >>>>>> from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which >>>>>> >>>>> increases >>>>> >>>>>> loadtimes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the >>>>>> gameinfo.txt, >>>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>> had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod >>>>>> >>>>> successfully, >>>>> >>>>>> even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, but >>>>>> >>>>> still. >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Julian Moschüring" <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < >>>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" >>>>>>> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of a >>>>>>> computer thats okay? :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make >>>>>>> sure >>>>>>> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you >>>>>>> >>>>> provide. >>>>> >>>>>>> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and >>>>>>> >>>>> modify >>>>> >>>>>>> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will >>>>>>> complain about this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your >>>>>>>> mod. >>>>>>>> >>>>> The >>>>> >>>>>>>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you >>>>>>>> modify >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> few >>>>>>>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod >>>>>>>> folder >>>>>>>> >>>>>> that >>>>>> >>>>>>>> will override the CS:S content. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to play >>>>>>>> >>>>> your >>>>> >>>>>>>> mod >>>>>>>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or >>>>>>>> two), >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their >>>>>>>> >>>>> materials, >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any >>>>>>>> extra >>>>>>>> .gcf >>>>>>>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine for >>>>>>>> >>>>>> small >>>>>> >>>>>>>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for >>>>>>>> Fair >>>>>>>> Use >>>>>>>> because: >>>>>>>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works >>>>>>>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products >>>>>>>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't limit >>>>>>>> Valve's >>>>>>>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S >>>>>>>> - You do not earn any money from their works >>>>>>>> - (You edited their works to some degree) >>>>>>>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, as >>>>>>>> >>>>> long >>>>> >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the >>>>>>>> contents >>>>>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is >>>>>>>> mounting >>>>>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include modifications >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> said models in my mod. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the >>>>>>>>> >>>>> legal >>>>> >>>>>>>>> aspect? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> >>>>> archives, >>>>> >>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> - Saul. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Olly's SEGA Game Gear >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > _________________________________________________________________ What can you do with the new Windows Live? Find out http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
