Joost, it looks like your cat is walking on your keyboard :o 2009/5/14 Joost van kempen <[email protected]>
> > fds > fdsfdsfsfsfsfs > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:29:24 +0200 > > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > > > I would, but I couldn't find a copy of it. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tom Leighton" <[email protected]> > > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > [email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > > > > >> Have you read the agreement that accompanies the SDK? > >> > >> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: > >>> I just read the Steam Subscriber Agreement ( > >>> http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ ) and it said > nothing > >>> about .GCF files or using unmounted content. However, it defines "Steam > >>> Software" as "software and other content and updates", and restricts > you > >>> from > >>> > >>> "with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, > >>> photocopy, > >>> reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, > >>> disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any > >>> proprietary notices or labels from the Steam Software or any software > >>> accessed via Steam" > >>> > >>> Other agreements with Valve might apply, which I have forgotten about, > or > >>> didn't read because they shouldn't cover copyright, such as the Steam > >>> Online > >>> Conduct ruleset, or the Valve Privacy Policy. > >>> > >>> The definition of Steam Software is unclear, and doesn't specify > whether > >>> it > >>> includes the specific game content or not, but if it doesn't, the game > >>> content is fully covered by US Copyright Laws. Again, thus it could > >>> qualify > >>> as Fair Use (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use for more > >>> information) > >>> because the works are non-comerical, only uses a bit of Valve's work > CS:S > >>> as > >>> a whole, (educational purposes can apply to GuildHall mods for > instance), > >>> and that a mod using a CS:S model will not harm or limit Valve's > >>> marketing > >>> or sales. > >>> > >>> Again, I have seen quite a few mods that utilizes content extracted > from > >>> the > >>> .gcf files, such as TF2 or CS:S content, but I am yet to hear Valve > >>> complain > >>> about such usage. Note that Valve Employees probably will not respond > to > >>> any > >>> questions regarding this, as they are not allowed to act officially for > >>> Valve without permission. If you really care, do mail the copyright > >>> department of Valve and ask. Of course, using a lot of CS:S content > (such > >>> as > >>> binaries and maps) is not fair use, as it will be an illegal copy of > the > >>> game (perhaps even stand-alone.) > >>> > >>> In conclusion, the Steam Subscriber Agreement doesn't directly prohibit > >>> you > >>> from extract and shipping content from the .GCF files, and if you do it > >>> carefully, it could count as Fair Use, and people on this list states > >>> that > >>> Valve doesn't care (which doesn't make it legal). I don't recommend > doing > >>> so > >>> though, because it's questionably legal, but it's your decision. > >>> > >>> - Sortie > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Olly" <[email protected]> > >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:58 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> If its in the EULA (which I think it is) that says that you cannot use > >>>> unmounted content. Then you just shouldn't unless you have consent > from > >>>> Valve. > >>>> Downloading music is illigal, and that's just copying data. I also > >>>> wouldn't > >>>> make any money from doing so. > >>>> > >>>> Emailing them would have been a much easier/accurate way to get an > >>>> answer. > >>>> > >>>> 2009/5/14 Saul Rennison <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> If it is actually illegal Valve will confront you and politely ask > you > >>>>> to > >>>>> remove the copyrighted content, then when you do everything's OK. No > >>>>> trouble! > >>>>> > >>>>> 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected]> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of > their > >>>>>> works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only > use > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot > >>>>>> substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can > >>>>>> > >>>>> quality > >>>>> > >>>>>> as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in > >>>>>> > >>>>> court, > >>>>> > >>>>>> and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. > >>>>>> The > >>>>>> same > >>>>>> argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't > >>>>>> recommend > >>>>>> doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use > small > >>>>>> amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the > >>>>>> > >>>>> content > >>>>> > >>>>>> from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which > >>>>>> > >>>>> increases > >>>>> > >>>>>> loadtimes. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the > >>>>>> gameinfo.txt, > >>>>>> > >>>>> I > >>>>> > >>>>>> had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod > >>>>>> > >>>>> successfully, > >>>>> > >>>>>> even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, but > >>>>>> > >>>>> still. > >>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Julian Moschüring" <[email protected]> > >>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > >>>>>> > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" > >>>>>>> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of > a > >>>>>>> computer thats okay? :-) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make > >>>>>>> sure > >>>>>>> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you > >>>>>>> > >>>>> provide. > >>>>> > >>>>>>> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do > it > >>>>>>> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and > >>>>>>> > >>>>> modify > >>>>> > >>>>>>> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will > >>>>>>> complain about this. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your > mod. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> The > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to > be > >>>>>>>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you > modify > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> few > >>>>>>>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod > folder > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> will override the CS:S content. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to > play > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> your > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> mod > >>>>>>>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or > >>>>>>>> two), > >>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> materials, > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any > >>>>>>>> extra > >>>>>>>> .gcf > >>>>>>>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine > for > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> small > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for > >>>>>>>> Fair > >>>>>>>> Use > >>>>>>>> because: > >>>>>>>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works > >>>>>>>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products > >>>>>>>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't > limit > >>>>>>>> Valve's > >>>>>>>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S > >>>>>>>> - You do not earn any money from their works > >>>>>>>> - (You edited their works to some degree) > >>>>>>>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, > as > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> long > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the > >>>>>>>> contents > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> of > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is > >>>>>>>> mounting > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" > >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM > >>>>>>>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include > modifications > >>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> said models in my mod. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> legal > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> aspect? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> archives, > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>> archives, > >>>>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>> archives, > >>>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> - Saul. > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Sent from Olly's SEGA Game Gear > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > What can you do with the new Windows Live? Find out > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
