I meant email valve directly. Not post on the list. > But it still depends on products purchased from Valve in order to function.
That statement is not valid, since Microsoft Office requires Windows which is a Microsoft product, but I'm sure if I took some images/icons or something from Office, and used them in my own open source app Microsoft would have something to say about it. I don't think any of us here are lawyers (maybe there is), so most of this discussion is based on opinion, or what you think is right. Its irrelevant if you think it should be allowed or not; It's not up-to any of us to decide, as none of us have bought a redistrobution license to the assets. As I said before, if you are in doubt, just email someone who looks like they could deal with this kind of thing from the valve staff page, as you are never going to get a definitive answer here! 2009/5/14 Rodrigo 'r2d2rigo' Diaz <[email protected]> > > > > b) Do any of the Source game packs that allow you to play a mod made > > with the SDK *not* include CSS these days? > > > > Orange Box doesn't, nor does L4D ;) > > 2009/5/14 Jed <[email protected]> > > > Yeah but... > > > > a) You need another Source game to be able to play the mod anyway so > > Valve are getting a sale right here. > > b) Do any of the Source game packs that allow you to play a mod made > > with the SDK *not* include CSS these days? > > > > I'd say that maybe 85% of the time someone with the relevant "base" > > games to play your mod probably has CSS installed anyway. If you want > > to use CSS content in an unmodified form, then yes, just mount the GCF > > and make it a requirement for the mod. If you're making derived model > > then it will be necessary to ship with your mod. > > > > I think as well you have to think a bit beyond "he stole my bike!" - > > stopping this kind of derivative work stifles innovation and puts > > people off modding. I'd say at least 75% of the mods I've seen out > > there use modified content from other Source games in one form or > > another. As it's being used for a Source game, your in a way "keeping > > it in the family" and there's also the follow on of tying a playing to > > Steam, exposure to other games and maybe leading to more sales. Also > > don't forget that games like CSS, DoDS and TF2 all started out as > > mods. It's not in Valves interest to stifle this kind of derivative > > work - especially when its non-profit and could potentially lead them > > to their next-big-hit. > > > > As I said, I think Valve "get" this and are forward thinking enough to > > see that this sort of incestuous breeding of content across their > > games is actually a good thing. > > > > - Jed > > > > > > 2009/5/14 Julian Moschüring <[email protected]>: > > > I agree, but your second point implies that you mount, in this case, > the > > > CS:S content, which was the question which started this thread. :-) > > > Perhaps one of the main reason someone plays your mod is that the > models > > > are so great. If you don't mount the CS:S content you would take money > > > from valve because if you had mounted it some people would have bought > > > CS:S to play your mod... mmh > > > > > > I would mount the content and publish the mod with the model. You could > > > also check if the content is mountable and if not use some standard > > > model instead of the CS:S ones. > > > > > > Jed schrieb: > > >> I think the great questions are: > > >> > > >> Is it hurting them? > > >> Is it worth them taking legal action? > > >> > > >> As has been pointed out, if you are just borrowing a few low-key (i.e > > >> not character/player) models such as props you're not really giving > > >> away the whole CSS game nor are you really damaging sales. > > >> > > >> Secondly, if borrowing a few models helps you get your free mod out > > >> the door, it might well prompt a player to purchase say the Orange Box > > >> to be able to play your mod - $$$ for Valve. > > >> > > >> Thirdly, the legal costs of taking any modder to task for borrowing a > > >> few props for his Source mod is going to be far in excess of their > > >> market value. > > >> > > >> >From my experience of dealing with Valve first hand I like to think > > >> their a level headed bunch of chaps and their attitude is that if > > >> you're not "taking the piss" with borrowed/reworked content or using > > >> it outside of a Source mod then it's acceptable. Of course that's my > > >> opinion and not fact. > > >> > > >> Then again I think it's a sad reflection on the litigious society of > > >> today if a few modders would be stomped on from trying to learn and > > >> innovate for fear of legal repercussion. > > >> > > >> - Jed > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected]>: > > >> > > >>> Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of > their > > >>> works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only > use > > a > > >>> small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot > > >>> substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can > > quality > > >>> as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in > > court, > > >>> and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. > The > > same > > >>> argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't > > recommend > > >>> doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use small > > >>> amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the > > content > > >>> from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which > > increases > > >>> loadtimes. > > >>> > > >>> Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the > > gameinfo.txt, I > > >>> had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod > > successfully, > > >>> even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, but > > still. > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Julian Moschüring" <[email protected]> > > >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > > [email protected]> > > >>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM > > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" > > >>>> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of a > > >>>> computer thats okay? :-) > > >>>> > > >>>> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make > > sure > > >>>> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you > > provide. > > >>>> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do > it > > >>>> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and > > modify > > >>>> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will > > >>>> complain about this. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: > > >>>> > > >>>>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your > mod. > > The > > >>>>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to > be > > >>>>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you > modify > > a > > >>>>> few > > >>>>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod > folder > > that > > >>>>> will override the CS:S content. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to play > > your > > >>>>> mod > > >>>>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or > > two), > > >>>>> you > > >>>>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their > > materials, > > >>>>> and > > >>>>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any > extra > > >>>>> .gcf > > >>>>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine for > > small > > >>>>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for > > Fair > > >>>>> Use > > >>>>> because: > > >>>>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works > > >>>>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products > > >>>>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't limit > > >>>>> Valve's > > >>>>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S > > >>>>> - You do not earn any money from their works > > >>>>> - (You edited their works to some degree) > > >>>>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, as > > long > > >>>>> as > > >>>>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the > contents > > of > > >>>>> a > > >>>>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is > mounting > > the > > >>>>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <[email protected]> > > >>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" > > >>>>> <[email protected]> > > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM > > >>>>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include modifications > > of > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>> said models in my mod. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the > > legal > > >>>>>> aspect? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > >>>>>> please visit: > > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > >>>>> please visit: > > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>>> please visit: > > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- Sent from Olly's SEGA Game Gear _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
