Actually, as far as i remember, there are a lot of props from HL2 into CS:S, some into L4D even. But that doesn't make them "public". I believe that Valve would not care if you modify or use some of the assets of their games on a mod for their games, but since i can't be sure about this, you would need, as others saids, to talk to the developers from Valve.
2009/5/14 Saul Rennison <[email protected]> > L4D is derived from CS:S code-wise and asset-wise. There are cs_assault, > de_nuke, etc. props in the L4D VPKs. > > 2009/5/14 Rodrigo 'r2d2rigo' Diaz <[email protected]> > > > > > > > b) Do any of the Source game packs that allow you to play a mod made > > > with the SDK *not* include CSS these days? > > > > > > > Orange Box doesn't, nor does L4D ;) > > > > 2009/5/14 Jed <[email protected]> > > > > > Yeah but... > > > > > > a) You need another Source game to be able to play the mod anyway so > > > Valve are getting a sale right here. > > > b) Do any of the Source game packs that allow you to play a mod made > > > with the SDK *not* include CSS these days? > > > > > > I'd say that maybe 85% of the time someone with the relevant "base" > > > games to play your mod probably has CSS installed anyway. If you want > > > to use CSS content in an unmodified form, then yes, just mount the GCF > > > and make it a requirement for the mod. If you're making derived model > > > then it will be necessary to ship with your mod. > > > > > > I think as well you have to think a bit beyond "he stole my bike!" - > > > stopping this kind of derivative work stifles innovation and puts > > > people off modding. I'd say at least 75% of the mods I've seen out > > > there use modified content from other Source games in one form or > > > another. As it's being used for a Source game, your in a way "keeping > > > it in the family" and there's also the follow on of tying a playing to > > > Steam, exposure to other games and maybe leading to more sales. Also > > > don't forget that games like CSS, DoDS and TF2 all started out as > > > mods. It's not in Valves interest to stifle this kind of derivative > > > work - especially when its non-profit and could potentially lead them > > > to their next-big-hit. > > > > > > As I said, I think Valve "get" this and are forward thinking enough to > > > see that this sort of incestuous breeding of content across their > > > games is actually a good thing. > > > > > > - Jed > > > > > > > > > 2009/5/14 Julian Moschüring <[email protected]>: > > > > I agree, but your second point implies that you mount, in this case, > > the > > > > CS:S content, which was the question which started this thread. :-) > > > > Perhaps one of the main reason someone plays your mod is that the > > models > > > > are so great. If you don't mount the CS:S content you would take > money > > > > from valve because if you had mounted it some people would have > bought > > > > CS:S to play your mod... mmh > > > > > > > > I would mount the content and publish the mod with the model. You > could > > > > also check if the content is mountable and if not use some standard > > > > model instead of the CS:S ones. > > > > > > > > Jed schrieb: > > > >> I think the great questions are: > > > >> > > > >> Is it hurting them? > > > >> Is it worth them taking legal action? > > > >> > > > >> As has been pointed out, if you are just borrowing a few low-key > (i.e > > > >> not character/player) models such as props you're not really giving > > > >> away the whole CSS game nor are you really damaging sales. > > > >> > > > >> Secondly, if borrowing a few models helps you get your free mod out > > > >> the door, it might well prompt a player to purchase say the Orange > Box > > > >> to be able to play your mod - $$$ for Valve. > > > >> > > > >> Thirdly, the legal costs of taking any modder to task for borrowing > a > > > >> few props for his Source mod is going to be far in excess of their > > > >> market value. > > > >> > > > >> >From my experience of dealing with Valve first hand I like to think > > > >> their a level headed bunch of chaps and their attitude is that if > > > >> you're not "taking the piss" with borrowed/reworked content or using > > > >> it outside of a Source mod then it's acceptable. Of course that's my > > > >> opinion and not fact. > > > >> > > > >> Then again I think it's a sad reflection on the litigious society of > > > >> today if a few modders would be stomped on from trying to learn and > > > >> innovate for fear of legal repercussion. > > > >> > > > >> - Jed > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected]>: > > > >> > > > >>> Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of > > their > > > >>> works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only > > use > > > a > > > >>> small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot > > > >>> substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can > > > quality > > > >>> as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in > > > court, > > > >>> and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. > > The > > > same > > > >>> argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't > > > recommend > > > >>> doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use > small > > > >>> amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the > > > content > > > >>> from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which > > > increases > > > >>> loadtimes. > > > >>> > > > >>> Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the > > > gameinfo.txt, I > > > >>> had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod > > > successfully, > > > >>> even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, > but > > > still. > > > >>> > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >>> From: "Julian Moschüring" <[email protected]> > > > >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > > > [email protected]> > > > >>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM > > > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" > > > >>>> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of > a > > > >>>> computer thats okay? :-) > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make > > > sure > > > >>>> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you > > > provide. > > > >>>> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do > > it > > > >>>> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and > > > modify > > > >>>> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will > > > >>>> complain about this. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your > > mod. > > > The > > > >>>>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to > > be > > > >>>>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you > > modify > > > a > > > >>>>> few > > > >>>>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod > > folder > > > that > > > >>>>> will override the CS:S content. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to > play > > > your > > > >>>>> mod > > > >>>>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or > > > two), > > > >>>>> you > > > >>>>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their > > > materials, > > > >>>>> and > > > >>>>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any > > extra > > > >>>>> .gcf > > > >>>>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine > for > > > small > > > >>>>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for > > > Fair > > > >>>>> Use > > > >>>>> because: > > > >>>>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works > > > >>>>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products > > > >>>>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't > limit > > > >>>>> Valve's > > > >>>>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S > > > >>>>> - You do not earn any money from their works > > > >>>>> - (You edited their works to some degree) > > > >>>>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, > as > > > long > > > >>>>> as > > > >>>>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the > > contents > > > of > > > >>>>> a > > > >>>>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is > > mounting > > > the > > > >>>>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >>>>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <[email protected]> > > > >>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" > > > >>>>> <[email protected]> > > > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM > > > >>>>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include > modifications > > > of > > > >>>>>> the > > > >>>>>> said models in my mod. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the > > > legal > > > >>>>>> aspect? > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > >>>>>> please visit: > > > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > >>>>> please visit: > > > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > >>>> please visit: > > > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > please visit: > > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > please visit: > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > -- > Thanks, > - Saul. > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
