You know what else would prevent fraud? Turning off trading entirely. That doesn't mean that it would be a good idea.
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Ross Bemrose <[email protected]> wrote: > Do you have some sort of data that shows the 30-day untradability for > Steam Gifts and 7-day untradability for store-bought/market-bought items > aren't preventing fraud? > > That's what those restrictions were put into place for. If they are > managing to lower the fraud rate through those particular channels, then > Valve wasn't wrong about them and they are working as intended. > > > On 7/5/2015 2:58 PM, Alexander Corn wrote: > > Paid mods are the only thing in recent memory that I can think of with > Valve admitting they made a mistake. There are plenty of other negative > changes that I can think of which are still alive and kicking (30-day > untradability for Steam Gifts, 7-day untradability for > store-bought/market-bought items, etc). As far as I can tell, Valve only > admits they're wrong when they start to receive a large volume of negative > emails. > > If they want to bring community servers back to equal footing on the > condition that nobody can run ads anymore, then so be it. I just think that > they're treating a symptom and not the actual problem. The actual problem > is that (apparently) players aren't able to easily find desirable servers. > But is "desirable" really well defined? Is a server with a skippable ad > okay? Is a server with a 5-second ad okay? 10 seconds? Is a server with > round-end donor immunity okay? Desirability is really subjective. > Personally, even as a non-server-op I think that Valve servers are > completely undesirable for various reasons, including performance, skill > level, and lack of moderation. > > I think that Quickplay at its core is a flawed concept, but I'd be fine > with them restoring all servers to Quickplay by default with the current > Quickplay rules. The problem is that Valve is too lazy to moderate > Quickplay at all. They'd rather cripple Quickplay to a point where it's > unprofitable to put "undesirable" servers into its pool. Which also affects > every other community server at the same time. > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:49 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many >>> of the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance >>> issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for Valve, a >>> multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to >>> make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense? >> >> >> The fact that valve did it sure as hell doesn't mean it was a good >> idea. I'm sure they would be the first to admit they're not infallible, and >> have made errors in judgement. >> >> Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players still have >>> that delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done about it. >> >> >> Of course there is. When there is a perception problem, you can take a >> proactive stance to fix what is causing that perception problem. Like it >> or not, servers running those ads have caused a perception problem. >> >> At any rate, this is the same argument that has gone in circles for two >> years, and probably contributes to why Valve won't lift a finger to help >> communities still passionate about the game. The people who want the right >> to monetize a player connection with an ad impression will always scream at >> the top of their lungs that they should be allowed to do anything they >> want, and we've already seen Valve response to that. >> >> At any rate, I think the more prudent course is to continue to try to >> change Valve's mind directly. If people think all the cynicism and insults >> hurled Valve's way will change things, then by all means - keep in keeping >> on. >> >> On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Saint K. <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Amen. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Matthias >>> "InstantMuffin" Kollek >>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 8:31 PM >>> *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>> *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't know if the last paragraph is meant sarcastically, but ads are a >>> huge problem on community servers. Feel free to write a script that >>> connects to all tf2 servers and keep the speakers on. >>> >>> Yes, motds can be turned off client-side. But please don't expect the >>> average joe to be able to do anything else other than maybe setting his >>> display resolution. >>> >>> In the good old days younger people would just gather a few friends, >>> create a clan and throw together part of their allowance to rent a >>> gameserver. Later on they would actually survive on donations. Hosting was >>> driven by passion. >>> Nowadays every person that can barely even write and their mother wants >>> to run a server and pay nothing for it. And use ads and whatnot to earn >>> money from the servers. Sorry, it never worked that way. >>> Solution is fairly simple. Have a strict report system to remove servers >>> from the list. Yes, for gods sake, it won't remove every single shit server >>> there is, but it's a decent first step. Evaluate, and go from there. It's >>> not like Valve wouldn't spit in server-ops' faces. The issue is they don't >>> pick the right ones. >>> >>> Luckily, I can't say much about the pinion-official-server debate, we >>> were quite unaffected in the EU. I must say however, the pinion people on >>> spuf get a lot of respect from me. A lot of people shit on them for the >>> right reasons, and they keep it together. I couldn't do that, god only >>> knows. >>> >>> On 05.07.2015 19:59, Alexander Corn wrote: >>> >>> Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many >>> of the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance >>> issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for Valve, a >>> multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to >>> make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense? >>> >>> But I digress. Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players >>> still have that delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done >>> about it. Best to just flip the switch back to all servers by default (and >>> reset Valve's quickplay scores, they're very artificially inflated now). >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:29 AM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Agreed. >>> >>> >>> >>> Donation-driven communities were how servers were operated for years >>> (and how many still do). To suggest that there has been some kind of >>> fundamental shift in the game's demographic that would prevent that model >>> from working now is simply not true. >>> >>> >>> >>> In fact, those very same people who were willing to support a server >>> community in the first years of TF2 existence now have even more disposable >>> income should they wish to do so. >>> >>> >>> >>> The difference between the two funding models is that as opposed to >>> those MOTD ads, a server community that is supported through donations has >>> to provide enough actual value to players that they CHOOSE to support that >>> community/server. MOTD ads simply monetize anyone that connects, without >>> providing any additional value (and in so many cases, because the system is >>> so open to abuse, the servers are/were barely suitable for running TF2 at >>> all in terms of performance). >>> >>> >>> >>> There seems to be a misconception here, though. I'm certainly not saying >>> that all servers/communities that run those ads are "bad". Far from it. Nor >>> am I saying that those who use them are somehow doing so in a malicious or >>> underhanded manner. >>> >>> >>> >>> However, I AM saying that when something that has been allowed to be >>> used on community servers sullies the general reputation of those very >>> servers so much that we actually have players that resist the slightest >>> change that would give community servers a little more exposure, then >>> perhaps it is time to start the conversation about whether it is in the >>> best interest of community servers operators as a whole to continue to >>> allow those ads to function. >>> >>> >>> >>> Frankly, if we have choose between restoring and rebuilding player >>> confidence in the quality of community servers, or allowing those ads to >>> run until there are no players left willing to set foot on a community >>> server, the answer would seem to be an easy one. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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