You know that's not what I'm talking about... I'm talking about real players you are controlling with bots.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:42 AM, Andreas Grimm <[email protected]> wrote: > I guess it's clear enough that there are bots: > > > http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/436076195939633025/33DF487164DA824E57D7C6CF5B58A55A9EEBFD51/ > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Robert Paulson > *Sent:* Saturday, September 05, 2015 10:25 AM > > *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update > > > > The custom tab was short lived and everyone agreed that the custom tab was > wrong, even the people working on TF2 at that time. > > > > However everyone can agree that pay2win does not belong in quickplay. I > mean even no-crit was banned, and you thought that pay2win was ok? Most > people did not cheat to get no-crit on quickplay. I'm not going to comment > on that rocket doing only 1 damage... I mean are you seriously suggesting > you had no extreme pay2win? > > > > And I am not saying your servers are the best. They just happen to be > filling better than everyone else and probably because you are tricking > people into thinking there's more active players on them than there really > are, and that there are no bots on the server. And the only way to know > otherwise is if you've been on the servers and know how your system works. > That is a clear violation of the policy of truth in my opinion. > > > > On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Andreas Grimm <[email protected]> wrote: > > Who didn't broke the spirit? > > > > Do you remember the custom tab of the server browser? Nearly all > communities cheated themselves into the internet tab. > > Our servers were nearly empty due to that, so we were forced to start that > too as one of the latest. > > > > Every community has its own stack of plugins. Some has custom attributes, > some others have things like !resizeme or what ever. > > We had dispensers shooting homing rockets (1 dmg only btw) and other mods. > > > > Valve just said "as vanilla as possible" without any details. > > So every community could break the spirit of the law just by having an > addons folder. > > > > Sure, saigns servers were a major reason, why people started to complain, > but we were not the only one and it has been fixed 1,5 years ago. > > But now with strict rules ... Is there really a reason left why players > should get a bad gaming experience in Quickplay in general? > > > > I also never said, that our servers are better than others. We are just > one community in the pool. > > Communties like Skial are also great for example. > > > > Most of our players know, that we have real bots and an autopilot plugin > and they don't care about it. Both is clearly marked in the server's > scoreboard and players could leave or blacklist our servers. We don't fake > or hide anything and Valve knows about our setup and how to contact us if > there are changes needed. > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Robert Paulson > *Sent:* Saturday, September 05, 2015 8:32 AM > > > *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update > > > > I know it wasn't specifically against the rules But you broke the spirit > of the law rather than the exact wording of the law. > > > > You had to know Valve did not want new players to face donors with rockets > on their dispensers. Yet you did not voluntarily remove yourself from > quickplay until they forced you to by specifically declaring it > unacceptable in quickplay. > > > > And I am not saying you should be blacklisted for that. But your saigns > servers are a major part of the blame for these recent strict policies. > > > > They gave me their ok, I just had to add a special tag to the scoreboard, > that people see active autopilots. Even if I would shutdown this > functionality, it wouldn't make any difference to our playerbase. People > would just idle in spawn instead of being a running frag for others. > > > > I doubt it. At least I doubt they would give you the same answer now. > > > > Your servers are not much different from anyone else's except they empty > out much later and fill up much sooner than everyone else while there are > 4-5 AFK human bots in the server. Your servers were doing poorly when Valve > decided to remove pay2win from quickplay and has years of bad reputation > for being pay2win. Now you expect everyone to believe that people join your > servers because they are naturally better now? > > > > Most people sort servers by the number of players and they cannot tell how > many AFK bots are actually on them without looking at the list of names. > This is a violation of the policy of truth in my opinion. Unless someone > from Valve says so otherwise here I will continue to believe so. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Andreas Grimm <[email protected]> wrote: > > Just my 2 cents from Saigns ... > > > > Before Valve patched their Quickplay to "Valve servers as default": > > - It was not officially and strictly forbidden by Valve to run pay2win > plugins. > > - It was still possible to exploit the motd to bring ads to quickplay > players (@Robert: You are completely uninformed) any many hosters still > used it. > > > > I have to admit, Saigns servers were pay2win to this moment. We never used > ads, but we gave gameplay advantages to donators. Quite simple. > > With the patch Valve has fixed the last exploits and they also updated > their Quickplay rules. > > > > New for us was: > > - Giving or selling gameplay advantages (Our usual pay2win bullshit) > > - Modifying stock maps (We modified round timers, added additional health > and ammo packs) > > - Granting or modifying economy items (We modified a lot) > > (See > https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2825-AFGJ-3513&l=german#truth > under "Modifications not allowed in quickplay" ) > > > > Since that patch we have removed all gameplay changing and pay2win plugins > from our Quickplay gameservers. > > > > By the way: > > I have ASKED Valve if it's allowed to activate my bot engine on AFK > players BEFORE I have installed that plugin. > > They gave me their ok, I just had to add a special tag to the scoreboard, > that people see active autopilots. Even if I would shutdown this > functionality, it wouldn't make any difference to our playerbase. People > would just idle in spawn instead of being a running frag for others. > > > > We don't fake anything - Why should we? > > Just to risk another server ban for at least 2 months? No thanks ... It's > already hard enough to fill gameservers which run unpopulated maps. > > > > In my opion it was absolutely correct and needed to add an "official > servers only" button. > > But with the exploit fixes and the new strict rules for Quickplay I don't > think, that it needs to be turned on by default anymore. > > > > - Andreas > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Robert Paulson > *Sent:* Saturday, September 05, 2015 6:22 AM > *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update > > > > Nothing to do with competition. I've actually never paid much attention to > what other server operators are doing as I'm more concerned what the > players are saying...and if you think that ads haven't given community > servers a bad reputation among the general player population (deserved or > not), then you haven't been paying attention. > > > > They were abused by some groups that spammed them on every death and > forced them open for 30 seconds. Now they aren't an issue anymore and it > was already literally impossible for them to be an issue months before > Valve blocked quickplay. Ads on TF2 existed quietly for at least 2 years > before the new people started abusing them. > > > > Why do you keep harping on something that isn't an issue anymore? Should > Valve blacklist pay2win servers just for all the players they drove away > from TF2 prior to quickplay? No. > > > > Yeah, this pretty much goes back to the OT of this conversion - the fact > that the default quickplay setting negatively affects ALL community > servers, regardless of how "great" they may be. > > > > No it really doesn't. You said this would be a positive change even if > Valve doesn't bring community servers back to quickplay. Which means you > want the ad supported servers not on quickplay to die so you can get their > players. If your servers being ad-free was such a benefit, then you would > have all the players you wanted from the non-quickplay pool. And then your > suggestion would be useless. > > > > I think you might have a bit of tunnel vision when it comes to these > Saigns folks. I've never really thought along the lines of "if this > community goes away, then mine will do better." > > > > Maybe because they are filling over a 100 TF2 servers a day while everyone > else is shutting down servers? And they are doing so by tricking people > into thinking they have more people playing than they actually do? And the > fact that they do so without ANY ADS which single-handedly ruins your > theory that people abuse the server list only because of ads. > > > > Valve has already blocked quickplay players from seeing the MOTD, and no > one here is asking to have that reversed. Your wild goose chase into > completely destroying the MOTD is unhelpful to put it mildly. > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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