GSPs have definitively established the meaning of what a "private
server" is and so has Valve in the quickplay menu with "community
servers". I see no need for further debate here. You can use whatever
term you want, but it's ridiculous to say others official terminology is
the wrong one to use - and furthermore, not helping the discussion.
You still haven't fully understood the "voice concept" I guess. There is
no reason why this group should be moderated by non-serverops. That is
ridiculous. You might as well demand that the democrats should be
represented by a Nazi.
Also, it seems you have completely ignored Powerlord's (Ross) point,
which is introducing tokens to properly identify, report and remove
servers. I also don't care who brought up the slag's servers. It is
neither me, nor Robert saying which community servers are bad (or
rather, how abusive specific servers are to their players), as you
noticed in your enumeration, it is the representative opinion of SPUF
players.
Now where lies the issue? In servers not being properly tagged (ads,
p2w) and banned (fake players, p2w), therefore giving decent community
servers the taint that comes with the baddies they're not related to.
This is what the GSLT token system is for, and this is what Valve is
already using in CSGO.
It is ironic that you are against an organized group that moves this OT
discussion into a constructive and moderated forum so Valve can hear us,
while you are against Valve ignoring groups. So you're finally right.
Valve is not interested in limiting itself to who or what it listens to.
So why not let the server-ops have a voice as well, among other
preexisting groups?
Yes, I am interested in community servers thriving. But I am not
interested in abusive, ad-infested, p2w communities that give honest and
hard-working serverops a bad rep.
Something no one has mentioned before, and as an explanation as to why
some communities apparently (can't really verify what their ops say, I
actually have opposing stats as I mentioned before), is that the
mid-popularity communities die out due to the changes and their
playerbase may or may not mitigate to the few popular communities that
could establish themselves before the quickplay changes. Thus making it
impossible to survive or start a community regardless of content and
management if you aren't in the top 5%.
Last but not least, if you say you're fine with wearing the troll badge,
I think that shows your stance and your cause. I don't see you being
opposing, or constructive. I see you rephrasing and hiding behind other
people's points, and derailing the topic down to terminologies, saying
nothing will work no matter what, literally laughing about others who
try. And for those well-organized walls of texts, that's a bad yield. I
think we got whatever small point you made, and I believe two sentences
would have sufficed.
On 18.12.2015 22:45, Cats From Above wrote:
Firstly, perhaps the term I meant was actually private server
operator. And yes, whilst it can be interpreted to refer to a
“passworded” server, It can also be used to refer to the nature of its
management - Ergo: Operated by a private entity other than Valve
Valve. The term “community server” is somewhat emotive in this debate
and it makes it sound like to have no “community servers” is
indicative of poor health in the Team Fortress 2 “community” or
something of that nature – Something that is not a given.
Secondly, I find it mildly amusing that both Robert and Matthias have
the chutzpa to go around telling modded server operators how well
their servers are and are not doing – as if the operators themselves
don’t know. A Fearts (DISC-FF) was on here earlier saying that
Quickplay hasn’t negatively affected his modded servers and in fact
since the Quickplay changes they’ve only gotten more popular. I myself
have similar experience in this regard.
Thirdly, I acknowledge the diversity of this group. However, I do not
believe that pedestaling a select few private server operators as the
“voice of all privately run servers” is the answer. Nor do I think
Valve is interested in limiting itself to who or what it listens to
nor would it be interested in having someone else picking and choosing
what it hears. If such a group were made, it would need to be headed
by someone with no vested interest in privately operated servers – In
Vegan parlance this means someone that isn’t running or involved in
the running of a community.
Fourthly, the routine complaints on this mailing list every time Valve
pushes an update is not community outcry, in my view. Every individual
here who seems to have an issue with Quickplay has a vested interest
in the operation of a privately managed server. Hence, I suspect that
most involvement here is triggered by a desire to see one’s privately
operated server(s) survive as opposed to any genuine care for the
wider Team Fortress 2 community.
Fifthly, SLAG was initially brought up by Robert in one of his earlier
responses. He used it as an example of a popular modded community that
had been significantly hurt by Quickplay, hence my response referring
to SLAG's issues at an administrative level that are probably doing it
more harm than Quickplay is. If Matthias read Robert’s response, he
would have known why this comment was made.
Sixthly, if putting forward an opposing point of view and throwing in
the occasional ad hominem jibe makes me a troll, then it is a label I
shall wear proudly. Thank you.
Finally, you can bet your money that if I created a SPUF thread asking
“Do you want community servers back in the default Quickplay pool?”
that the overwhelming response will be “No”, with specific reference
to not wanting things like, A) Advertising B) Fake players C) Pay to
win benefits D) Abusive Admins E) Stupid game mods F) Arbitrary rules
etc. – These are all stereotypes some Quickplay users “look forward
to” when they join a community server and I don’t think Quickplay
users more generally speaking want a bar of it. Valve are fully aware
of this reality, hence the reason for the change they made in the
first place.
Regardless, N-Gon has aptly demonstrated the pointlessness of this
conversation with his off-topic remark
On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 4:21 AM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
There is no community outcry, because this is the outcry. You're
expecting an outcry from people who are barely able to adjust
their game's settings, let alone disable the motd in their configs
to get rid of annoying ads.
I also don't know why you're bringing up Slag's servers. I've
heard a few stories about him. I know some model designers who he
ripped off, he stole their content without giving two fucks. It is
also not quite white-knighty of a community to sell unmutes and
unbans. I wouldn't pick him as the poster boy for well-run
community servers or better phrased "friendly".
If you're questioning the talent that is left in the modding
community, feel free to ask this question again in the next two
months.
Honestly, I think you're trying to troll on a high level here.
"One of those vegan types", yeah sure. "Funny"
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