...<between 1936 and 1975 it was forbidden to speak galician Real Academia
Galega da Lingua ( Galician Royal Academy of Language)>
I want to say " ... it was forbidden to speak galician at Real Academia ..."
(inside the institution)
...eu,
pirata petulante,
namorado sem amante,
malabarista errante,
músico ambulante,
eu, tam breve...
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [HG-new] Re: gurdy teacher in Lisbon?
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 03:09:05 +0100
...Oh, to finish (or not?) with this: there is no question about that. You
cannot get "auctoritas" in people, and I hope you guys don´t missunderstand the
assertion. I mean, Galiza is a occupied territorie, at least as paradigm to
study linguistic situation. When Sociolinguistic, or Historical Linguistic or
whatever, studies attributes, characteristics, of galician-portuguese language
in this country (not galician-portuguese language in Portugal, Brasil, etc.,
that is another different question) it studies them under this paradigm: an
occupied territorie. So, speakers have the esquizofrenic behaviour (I mean in a
linguistic perspective) of this environment. It happen not only in Galiza and
there is a lot of literature about this. But an idiom has its structure,
derivation's rules, formation patterns, etc., all of them historically
determined. Remember, galician language appears in IX century, with massive
lyrical creations since XII (ca. 1196, first well known 'cantiga'),
administrative texts, etc. So, it has a long history in which it was defined as
a system, as a whole organism. All of that is not new, I guess, it's already
known. The point: "sanfona" derives from greek and later latin "symphonie".
There is no way to the radical of the latin word becomes "zan-" in galician, it
will be always "san-". I said before, this idiom has some development rules
historically defined and, by the way, this is the reason for which latin --one
system-- come to be galician-portuguese, french, catalan, romanian. All of them
walk trough the History in their own different ways (with commun or contact
points, sure, but it's not the case).
The problem: spanish pression (opression, more correctly). But this is a
problem (today) with people, with speakers, it's my problem as a native speaker
(in school, in high school, with the Government, etc), it's our problem as
nation (about the relation with de Lord --spanish kingdom, of course--, about
the relation with the always intolerant spanish culture), it has consequences
in the control or knowledge of the idiom they (speakers) can or cannot achieve.
But it's not ('in se') a problem with language itself. Not yet today (sorry
Lord). Because galician idiom has (I wrote it) a huge linguistic, literary,
etc. "corpus" (a millennial one, literally) And, today (it is not so clear for
the future, here is one of the points of our fight) we know that "symphonie"
becomes "sanfona" in this part of the world.
Social questions, and I finish I swear, relates to the fact of some
dictionaries (Xerais, 'verbigratia') show "zanfona" or another wrong word.
Because Franco died in 1975 and reconstruction takes its time and, nowadays,
spanish imperialism thought makes his work. Just to finished, to better
understand: between 1936 and 1975 it was forbidden to speak galician Real
Academia Galega da Lingua ( Galician Royal Academy of Language) and so near as
1986 this institution was presided over by the Subdelegado do Governo Espanhol
(I dont known how I could translate this, sorry. Anyway, it's a part of spanish
government structure, not galician government, he follows and take orders from
Spain). It's a little bit hard to understand, isn't it? Welcome to spanish
kingdom and its colonies.
(Note that I am not speaking about the conflict "reintegracionismo" vs.
"isolacionismo". I am, believe me, in the heart of this conflict but this is
not the question here, not with this word)
...eu,
pirata petulante,
namorado sem amante,
malabarista errante,
músico ambulante,
eu, tam breve...
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HG-new] Re: gurdy teacher in Lisbon?
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 23:16:38 +0000
To: [email protected]
Dear all,
I've kept quiet about the zanfona/zanfoña matter since I don't wish to fan the
lively flames of Galician orthographic-linguistic polemic (and admittedly
having a foot in both "camps" myself via personal and family connection, I'd
probably annoy both sides, heh heh...) but I will add that I noticed throughout
my fieldwork in these past years, that speakers of Castellano within the
current gurdy-reviving circles tend to refer to the instrument as 'zanfona'
(minus the 'ñ') as per the diccionario Xerais. However, personal usage varies.
I have some makers on record in Zamora calling the instrument a 'zanfoña',
others in Galicia calling it a 'zamfoña' but bear in mind that, as I understand
it, np/nf and mp/mf transference is a common thing. Professional linguists,
please correct me if that is wrong. Juan Varela de Vega mentions at the
beginning of his 1980 article "Anotaciónes históricas sobre la zanfona"
(http://www.funjdiaz.net/folklore/07ficha.cfm?id=7) some synonymies of the
term, for what it's worth. He includes a few languages but frustratingly enough
doesn't separate the Galician+Portuguese terms from Spanish (grumble!) .
However he does mention the Libro de buen amor (1389), where the terms
mentioned 'cinfonia', 'zamponna', as well as 'çinfonía' and 'çanpoña'.
But enough on that--Antonio: Xulio García Bilbao published an article in
Revista de Musicología that makes reference to the hole on the lower bout of
the instrument, see here:
http://ret007ei.eresmas.net/reolid/a-santalices.html
NB: the footnote numbered 23. However, García Bilbao doesn't mention that, if
indeed the exemplar that Santalices had was a modified vielle organisée, then
the remaining possibility might be that the hole is there much like the
'mousehole' common to many harpsichords built with an otherwise closed-off
soundbox, simply a way to equalize air pressure between the inside and outside
of the instrument. While on a harpsichord the wood itself and the seams are
probably porous enough to allow enough atmospheric equalization to avoid drama
of any sort, in a vielle organisée it might be possible that the movement of
internal bellows etc might displace enough air to make the little air-hole
desirable. I might also be totally off base on this one. Any thoughts, folks?
Ate breve, Vlad
On 4 Dec 2011, at 22:18, Antonio wrote:Hi,
I am not willing to argue about one letter in a word. However, Sorry
to say this but my Galician dictionary only shows "Zanfona" and
recommends not to use "Zanfoña". (Ed. Xerais - published 2009) - But i
have to say that you find both in contemporary written galician.
Augusto can explain to you that in Brazil "Sanfona" will be understood
by most people as a different instrument (not sure about english word:
Accordion, maybe?). (when I was a child we had a "porta sanfonada" in
our home in Sao Paulo).
I promised not to discuss about this sobject anymoe in this group.
But same language has variations between countries, and within
different regions inside a territory.
the portuguese expression " apanhar a bicha" has a total different
meaning to a brasilian. In Brasil they would say "pegar a fila" (get
the queu)
Augusto, Galician and portuguese were the same language (not one
before the other, just the same) until one galician king divided the
kingdom in two parts - one for each descendant.
The first daughter (with the bigger chunk of territory) fought against
castille and lost (then galicia kingdom became part of castilla) -
the second was growing the territory in south direction as the
christians took over land after fighting with muslins (in here between
711 and 1492). So Portugal became a kingdom being just a smal portion
in the north and grow after. (This also explain the origin of the
Bragança Kings - with origin in "Tras os Montes" region - up notheast
portugal)
The only point is that language evolved in different ways. Of course
galician influenced by castillian (or spanish as you prefer)
Christa muths -See wikipedia in Spanish : Galicia/Galiza : "Zanfona
=Sanfona = Zanfoña" --Zamora: "Gaita Zamorana" - Asturias: "Zanfona /
Gaita de Rabil / Zanfonía" - Basque Country: "Zarrabete" -
Catalunya and Valencia Community: "Viola de roda" - Palencia:
"Rabil de manubrio"
The catalan player Marc Egea has published a hurdy gurdy manual named:
"Iniciació a la viola de roda". Written in catalan - and the name
shows that in name "Viola de Roda" is used in catalan and for
extension in that area of Spain.
For "Eu Puaulo P." and all of you. It seems that older galician gurdys
found have a hole in the upper side of the carcass (latearl superior).
Does anyone knows what the function was of it?
regards, apologies for mistakes of my writting (and perhaps for a long
message)
On 4 dic, 20:33, Augusto de Ornellas Abreu
<[email protected]> wrote:
Viela de roda is more used in Portugal and Brazil (well, up until recently
I was the ONLY gurdy player in the whole country, now we have our friend
Rique), but I've heard only once that "viela de roda", since it is valid in
Portuguese, COULD (emphasis on the conditional) be used in Galicia as well,
but the normal word is zanfona/sanfona (sanfona being the normative one,
and zanfona a "castillianized" version).
Leonard
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