I highly suspect they have been giving a raw deal by the political class but what are you wanting the average taxpayer or taxpayer of modest or little means or even the wealthy taxpayer who earned his or her money by honest non rent seeking means to do about it and why do you want them to pay up if that is what you are wanting, why let the guilty off so easy and punish the innocent it doesn't make a lick of sense.--- In [email protected], "John Stroebel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well Urmas, I will clear up a few things; > > There are HUNDREDS of abandoned and closed down uranium mines on their land. > They were closed down in the early 60's when the gov't stopped buying new > ore. Now that the uranium is being processed again, there is a new demand > BUT the people who control Utah politically are LDS. Better than 80% of > Anglos, ALL the elected officials to Washington (including Oran Hatch) and > the Governor are LDS. LDS get the first contracts on anything. The Ute stand > no chance at ALL selling ore to the government or private industry. Believe > me, there ARE no other resources there. Cattle used to be viable, and the > Ute began a cattle company, but that ended with the beginning of this 10 > year drought. > > Their 8 years of education amount to little. Bear in mind this is a place > where the school district is the biggest employer....and a good deal of > money comes in for the education of Native American kids. However, that does > not MEAN these services GO to the Native American kids. I tutored many and > set up the program they have now for tutoring. IT is rare for a kid to read > or do math on grade level. > > The closest city is 1 1/2 hours away through what is called 'canyon > country'. Many of the roads literally close when it gets cold. Why would > anyone buy products that need to be shipped 1 1/2 hours at the present price > of gas when it can be gotten in Cortez Colorado or Price Utah for less? > > Tell ya what folks...do a google search on demographics and economics of the > south east portion of Utah. You will be surprised. > > > On 6/26/06, Urmas Järve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Many in this forum are running for office. Many have lots of > > connections in US. Also we libertarians praise the idea of private charity > > over welfare. This would be the perfect time to lead by example and try to > > help these people. Here in our form of the LP we regularly organize > > charitable events and help to gather money for some goals. > > > > John you mentioned that they have no natural resources there and that > > there is abandoned uranium mine there. Why was the mine abandoned and who > > owns it? Also there must be some other resources there. > > > > The Uta may have had a bad deal with LDS but maybe another partner could > > make things better. Anybody know any entrepreneurs in that area who would be > > willing to go in to business with those people? Also for manufacturing 25 > > mile or 15 mile from the nearest city does not mean much. If manufacturing > > can be set up it would only be a matter of maintaining the equipment and > > shipping out the products. With the lack of competition an employer could > > make a nice profit with lower wages and still provide invaluable jobs for > > those people. > > > > Also what is the education program like in US. What do they learn during > > those 8 grades and later high school. I for example had the opportunity to > > take advanced math and computer classes during my time in school. Does the > > US system have anything similar in place. Do your schools have any work > > training programs? > > > > Best wishes, > > Urmas > > > > On 06/26/2006 22:40, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <Joe%40LibertyGuys.org> wrote: > > > > > > If I may address you, John, let's give those people the immediate > > attention > > > they need in the form of food, shelter, etc. And yes, John, I support > > > forcefully taking it from those of us who are not starving. Because > > you see, > > > John, I realize that people do not eat in "the long run" and that > > private > > > charity in this country has atrophied from non-use. But what I want > > you to > > > do, John, is that while we're treating the symptoms, John, please > > tell me, > > > John, how we will cure the problem of poverty...John. Because, John, > > if > > > indeed these people are no different from us well-fed types as far as > > > physical and mental traits, John, then there must be some sort of > > > externality that's keeping them poor. But, John, let's keep the > > emotional > > > aspect of this to a minimum as it doesn't help anyone in a positive > > manner > > > except to maybe gather private donations for immediate help. And > > while we're > > > at it, John, I don't think I have to tell you, John, that a > > condescending > > > tone will not sway anyone toward your cause nor will it yield any > > solutions. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: [email protected] <Libertarian% 40yahoogroups.com>[mailto: > > [email protected] <Libertarian%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of John Stroebel > > > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 3:03 PM > > > To: [email protected] <Libertarian% 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Youthful Entrepreneurs > > > > > > I am sorry Mark, did you have a reply to my questions or not? > > > > > > On 6/26/06, mark robert net> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > By repeating the claim that they will die if taken off govt aid, > > > > you are ignoring my points about how govt aid creates/sustains > > > > poverty and how cutting it reduces poverty. You persist in > > > > refusing to associate any of the terrible conditions you > > describe > > > > as a result of the aid, although said associations are basic. > > > > There are direct correlations between govt handouts and > > > > reductions in incentive for capitalistic innovation / jobs. What > > > > you can expect to see as a result of cutting the aid is an > > > > increase in business ideas and jobs and wealth and health. These > > > > are fundamental libertarian principles of private property and > > > > free enterprise, and do not take any further expertise to > > > > understand. > > > > > > > > Your strong emotionalism would seem to be clouding your > > > > objectivity; similar to a drug warrior going on about the > > ravages > > > > of drugs in his area. > > > > > > > > If your last question asks if I would decrease military > > spending, > > > > the answer is "yes". I thought you previously agreed with me on > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > > > ************ > > > > {American jurors have complete Constitutional authority to vote > > > > "not guilty" based on nothing more than a disagreement with the > > > > case, no matter the evidence - despite the judge's instructions. > > > > There is absolutely no obligation to vote "guilty" to arrive at > > a > > > > unanimous verdict. Get on a jury, stand your ground, and fulfill > > > > its other main purpose: to counteract abusive government and > > > > > > unjust lawsuits. > > > > See www.fija.org > > > > [Please adopt this as your own signature.] } > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- > > > > > > > > Ah....so let them die. That about right Mark? > > > > > > > > And the reason is....ending the agreements with this reservation > > > > will do > > > > what...cause the prosperity of this county to increase? > > > > > > > > Perhaps Mark you might tell me how. You seem to be an expert of > > > > sorts. Would > > > > you be so kind as to spell out for me what we can expect to see, > > > > in some > > > > order of progression, in way of improvements in San Juan County. > > > > > > > > Then perhaps you can tell me what your expertise is. Are you an > > > > economist? A > > > > sociologist? An anthropologist. Maybe you can show me some kind > > > > of date, in > > > > way of study, that will show how this has been tested in a real > > > > situation. > > > > > > > > Then, Mark, you can perhaps explain how we should handle the > > > > starvation of > > > > 500 people, especially the children. Can you do that? > > > > > > > > Have you ever seen people who live on less than 2500 caleries a > > > > day Mark? > > > > Have you ever worked with them? Have you ever worked with > > > > children with > > > > rickets, or anemia, or no teeth? Have you ever shared your lunch > > > > with > > > > children in situations like this? > > > > > > > > Have you ever walked into a home and seen dog being served...and > > > > people > > > > happy to have meat for a change? > > > > > > > > See Mark, your pat and packaged ideas on how to deal with human > > > > beings who > > > > do not have enough to eat or means to earn a living is much > > > > too....clinical > > > > for me. It seems have shades of cynicism. But them, maybe you > > are > > > > an > > > > expert...maybe you have done some studies on genocide for the > > > > good of the > > > > economy. Have you? > > > > > > > > Now before you cry out about a word or two you take to heart, > > > > remember to > > > > answer the questions. Tell me how the deaths by starvation and > > > > disease of > > > > 500 or so Native Americans who live in the least densely > > > > populated and > > > > poorest county in the USA will help us right now to become more > > > > prosperous. > > > > I'll pass on your remarkable discovery to the people of San Juan > > > > County > > > > Utah. See, they have been looking for a way out of the poverty > > > > there for a > > > > long long time. > > > > > > > > Then tell me what you will do after you end this situation. Save > > > > more money > > > > on body armour because that is like a handout too? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ******************************************************************* > > > "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang > > > separately!" ...Ben Franklin > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > > > Are YOU Preparing For The November '06 Elections NOW??? > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > > > http://groups. > > > yahoo.com/group/Save-The-USA/ > > > > > > It is time to do something about all this! > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > -- > ******************************************************************* > "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang > separately!" ...Ben Franklin > > ******************************************************************* > Are YOU Preparing For The November '06 Elections NOW??? > > ******************************************************************* > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Save-The-USA/ > > It is time to do something about all this! > > ******************************************************************* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
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