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On Feb 17, 7:11 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
> When you have about an hour, it may be of interest. <<Orn
>
> I gave you 20 minutes not long ago and.............................
>
> Now you give me an hour.....................it better be good orn!!!
>
> On Feb 17, 8:43 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Many here know about Plato, perhaps a few are not well versed. I have
> > been listening to the MP3 near the bottom of this page titled "The
> > Esoteric Plato" and find it directly related to the current topic
> > along with many others we have discussed..
>
> > When you have about an hour, it may be of interest.
>
> > It looks like the following:
>
> > Weber, Renee
> > The Esoteric Plato
> > A basic introduction to Plato and the esoteric ideas inherent in his
> > writings. 65 minutes.
>
> > On Feb 17, 8:32 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > You may be right about indescribability, as language in itself can be
> > > infinite and finite. The self to me is that self one knows when eyes
> > > and ears are closed. The self is not what is seen or heard, we are
> > > not what we see in the mirror. As you say it is unidentified with
> > > anything and we can only come to touch with it in mind. Our physical
> > > being is a representation of self to a point, as the influences and
> > > attachments to the tangible world camouflage and sometime obscures the
> > > truth self. I just close my eyes and visit my 'self, the self that no
> > > one can touch, alter or imprison.
>
> > > On Feb 17, 2:06 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Chris, SD ! As I know of it, the whole truth ... the ONE ... is
> > > > indescribable. This may cliche but it's important that I start with
> > > > this. It is also linked with the this discussion on our finite and
> > > > infinite nature, elsewhere.
>
> > > > IT is the SELF, unidentified with anything, beyond this family
> > > > ( ancestors, wife, children ... ) - nationality - race related
> > > > identity we so easily take on, beyond this possession - linked
> > > > identity we so commonly have, beyond this body - centered identity
> > > > that is so pathologically ours, beyond this feeling - thought -
> > > > imagination we are so automatically attached with, beyond this
> > > > knowledge - awareness being we take ourselves to be ... beyond the
> > > > least variation and differences in our vision, the WHOLE without parts
> > > > or difference, the ONE without a second or another ... ... not
> > > > ( just ) this body, not ( just ) this mind ( and intellect ).
>
> > > > The WHOLE is in our mind. The parts are in our mind. This is a
> > > > logically flawed mind. For the WHOLE cannot be ( in the mind ) untill
> > > > the mind is without the least awareness of the parts ( in the mind ).
> > > > The Self is everything ... covered with bliss ( the source of ego ),
> > > > with knowledge ( in the intellect ), with thought ( in the mind ),
> > > > with feelings ( in the nerves ), with life ( in the senses ), with
> > > > action ( in the body ), with companionship ( in the company of
> > > > others ), with richness or possessions ( in the world ) ... And, yet,
> > > > this very Self is beyond it all. IT is the WHOLE.
>
> > > > Chris, we are this Self. THIS Self is ONE. We are not mere bio -
> > > > chemical truths. Bio - chemistry and evolution are a manifestation of
> > > > this very Self we each are !
>
> > > > There is so much more I may yet say. But, what is in my attention
> > > > right now is the Estimation software demo I have just attended. I am
> > > > pressed for taking forward my attempts to awaken this leviathan that
> > > > has hired me ! And, sure, I will.
>
> > > > Forgive me for the babble.
>
> > > > On Feb 17, 11:41 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Do you dare to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth,
> > > > > so help you Zod?
>
> > > > > On Feb 16, 10:47 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > There is much in your posts that agrees with my experience, Chris.
> > > > > > Except that ... even all of that isn't the whole truth !
>
> > > > > > On Feb 17, 8:42 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > One other note on this:
> > > > > > > The idea of heaven or hell I think was best explored in the movie
> > > > > > > 'Waking
> > > > > > > Life':
>
> > > > > > >http://www.foxstore.com/detail.php?item=438
>
> > > > > > > The movie posits that heaven or hell is the experience as you
> > > > > > > die, your
> > > > > > > final second stretching into eternity as your perception of time
> > > > > > > ceases to
> > > > > > > be. Thus, as your DMT production spikes, and your prefrontal
> > > > > > > processes are
> > > > > > > disconnected from sensory inputs which are shutting down, your
> > > > > > > logical
> > > > > > > processes are left with only your subconscious in the final
> > > > > > > moments before
> > > > > > > death. All joys, regrets, guilts, achievements, pride, love, are
> > > > > > > all indexed
> > > > > > > in that final moment, and the angels or demons that await you in
> > > > > > > your DMT
> > > > > > > tunnel are entirely of your own creation.
>
> > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Chris Jenkins
> > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I think those "mini-fugues" you achieve on limited sleep and
> > > > > > > > coffee are
> > > > > > > > most definitely small scale versions of the "spiritual states"
> > > > > > > > you are
> > > > > > > > referring to.
> > > > > > > > Much of the modern resurgence in non-Christian western
> > > > > > > > spirituality is
> > > > > > > > influenced is influenced by various cultures who much to say
> > > > > > > > about the
> > > > > > > > topic. Most of these cultures were shamanic in nature, and made
> > > > > > > > use of
> > > > > > > > psychoactive substances in order to achieve "spiritual
> > > > > > > > transcendence". The
> > > > > > > > use of these substances as sacrament has been a cultural
> > > > > > > > tradition for as
> > > > > > > > long as humankind has existed. The only religions which don't
> > > > > > > > are those
> > > > > > > > which prescribe various forms of asceticism, sadism, or
> > > > > > > > masochism, all which
> > > > > > > > in suitable form can release the the cocktail in question.
>
> > > > > > > > The "Spiritual Experience" is the most intense, amazing,
> > > > > > > > transcendent
> > > > > > > > hallucinogenic experience a human can have. That process has
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > philosophized and analyzed at length by great minds such as
> > > > > > > > Hoffman, Leary,
> > > > > > > > Castaneta, and others. The non-random nature of classes of
> > > > > > > > hallucinogens
> > > > > > > > allows those states to be of use in guided meditation. They
> > > > > > > > serve purpose in
> > > > > > > > ritual. By disconnecting logical thought processes from the
> > > > > > > > normal channels
> > > > > > > > of perception, the shaman is forced to face their subconscious.
> > > > > > > > This is a
> > > > > > > > journey repeated through out all shamanic traditions.
>
> > > > > > > > In much of the Western New Age movement, elements of shamanic
> > > > > > > > tradition,
> > > > > > > > especially Far Eastern and Native American traditions, have been
> > > > > > > > incorporated into the philosophies, but the psychoactive
> > > > > > > > elements have all
> > > > > > > > been removed. Three days of fasting on nothing but pemmican and
> > > > > > > > water, while
> > > > > > > > walking through the desert, followed by a night of peyote tea,
> > > > > > > > is sure to
> > > > > > > > guarantee a night spent in journey with the Great Spirit.
>
> > > > > > > > That was probably un-necessary history I'm sure, but I wanted
> > > > > > > > to drive home
> > > > > > > > the fact that it's really only the very modern groups that tell
> > > > > > > > you you can
> > > > > > > > just pop right out if you try hard enough. Almost everyone else
> > > > > > > > prescribes a
> > > > > > > > tea, a mushroom, flogging yourself with a whip til you bleed,
> > > > > > > > flogging
> > > > > > > > someone else with a whip til they bleed, or spending a year on
> > > > > > > > a mountain
> > > > > > > > top drinking water and eating a half cup of rice a day.
>
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> Yes I can imagine that accomplishing that state of OBE on
> > > > > > > >> one's own
> > > > > > > >> initiative is quite the feat but I'm sure that it's been
> > > > > > > >> realized by
> > > > > > > >> some. I've heard of triathlon participants at or near serious
> > > > > > > >> dehydration levels experiencing a similar state. I know for
> > > > > > > >> me the
> > > > > > > >> experience was life changing and still there are days that
> > > > > > > >> spend
> > > > > > > >> considerable time reflecting upon it. I can't say that the
> > > > > > > >> outcome of
> > > > > > > >> returning has been all that positive as far as short term
> > > > > > > >> memory and
> > > > > > > >> overall recall, not to mention a significant loss in pulmonary
> > > > > > > >> ability. There are days of highlighted cerebral activity and
> > > > > > > >> others
> > > > > > > >> where I'm not sure who I am after 2 cups of coffee. It's a
> > > > > > > >> strange
> > > > > > > >> existence but it still works for me and I'm able to spend time
> > > > > > > >> yaking
> > > > > > > >> away in here, so that 's good. I've been dreaming very
> > > > > > > >> heavily this
> > > > > > > >> week and trying to peace together meanings if any. There is a
> > > > > > > >> lot
> > > > > > > >> going on out there in the beyond.
>
> > > > > > > >> On Feb 16, 4:41 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > ;) You're not getting my DMT levels too high...and you left
> > > > > > > >> > out
> > > > > > > >> Ketamine!
> > > > > > > >> > What I'm merely stating is that it's not too difficult to
> > > > > > > >> > understand
> > > > > > > >> what an
> > > > > > > >> > OBE is, nor to have one anytime you feel like. Accomplishing
> > > > > > > >> > that state
> > > > > > > >> by
> > > > > > > >> > producing your own DMT is quite a feat, but given what I've
> > > > > > > >> > seen well
> > > > > > > >> > trained athletes and martial artists accomplish in altering
> > > > > > > >> > their
> > > > > > > >> metabolism
> > > > > > > >> > on command, I don't have problem believing it's possible.
>
> > > > > > > >> > " I believe there to be a
> > > > > > > >> > spontaneity aspect of OBE that occurs during spiritual and
> > > > > > > >> > dream
> > > > > > > >> > states without any influence from DMT."
>
> > > > > > > >> > While you're dreaming? Well blood hell, of course. I can
> > > > > > > >> > also fly while
> > > > > > > >> I'm
>
> ...
>
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>
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