When you have about an hour, it may be of interest. <<Orn I gave you 20 minutes not long ago and.............................
Now you give me an hour.....................it better be good orn!!! On Feb 17, 8:43 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > Many here know about Plato, perhaps a few are not well versed. I have > been listening to the MP3 near the bottom of this page titled "The > Esoteric Plato" and find it directly related to the current topic > along with many others we have discussed.. > > When you have about an hour, it may be of interest. > > It looks like the following: > > Weber, Renee > The Esoteric Plato > A basic introduction to Plato and the esoteric ideas inherent in his > writings. 65 minutes. > > On Feb 17, 8:32 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > You may be right about indescribability, as language in itself can be > > infinite and finite. The self to me is that self one knows when eyes > > and ears are closed. The self is not what is seen or heard, we are > > not what we see in the mirror. As you say it is unidentified with > > anything and we can only come to touch with it in mind. Our physical > > being is a representation of self to a point, as the influences and > > attachments to the tangible world camouflage and sometime obscures the > > truth self. I just close my eyes and visit my 'self, the self that no > > one can touch, alter or imprison. > > > On Feb 17, 2:06 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Chris, SD ! As I know of it, the whole truth ... the ONE ... is > > > indescribable. This may cliche but it's important that I start with > > > this. It is also linked with the this discussion on our finite and > > > infinite nature, elsewhere. > > > > IT is the SELF, unidentified with anything, beyond this family > > > ( ancestors, wife, children ... ) - nationality - race related > > > identity we so easily take on, beyond this possession - linked > > > identity we so commonly have, beyond this body - centered identity > > > that is so pathologically ours, beyond this feeling - thought - > > > imagination we are so automatically attached with, beyond this > > > knowledge - awareness being we take ourselves to be ... beyond the > > > least variation and differences in our vision, the WHOLE without parts > > > or difference, the ONE without a second or another ... ... not > > > ( just ) this body, not ( just ) this mind ( and intellect ). > > > > The WHOLE is in our mind. The parts are in our mind. This is a > > > logically flawed mind. For the WHOLE cannot be ( in the mind ) untill > > > the mind is without the least awareness of the parts ( in the mind ). > > > The Self is everything ... covered with bliss ( the source of ego ), > > > with knowledge ( in the intellect ), with thought ( in the mind ), > > > with feelings ( in the nerves ), with life ( in the senses ), with > > > action ( in the body ), with companionship ( in the company of > > > others ), with richness or possessions ( in the world ) ... And, yet, > > > this very Self is beyond it all. IT is the WHOLE. > > > > Chris, we are this Self. THIS Self is ONE. We are not mere bio - > > > chemical truths. Bio - chemistry and evolution are a manifestation of > > > this very Self we each are ! > > > > There is so much more I may yet say. But, what is in my attention > > > right now is the Estimation software demo I have just attended. I am > > > pressed for taking forward my attempts to awaken this leviathan that > > > has hired me ! And, sure, I will. > > > > Forgive me for the babble. > > > > On Feb 17, 11:41 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Do you dare to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, > > > > so help you Zod? > > > > > On Feb 16, 10:47 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > There is much in your posts that agrees with my experience, Chris. > > > > > Except that ... even all of that isn't the whole truth ! > > > > > > On Feb 17, 8:42 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > One other note on this: > > > > > > The idea of heaven or hell I think was best explored in the movie > > > > > > 'Waking > > > > > > Life': > > > > > > >http://www.foxstore.com/detail.php?item=438 > > > > > > > The movie posits that heaven or hell is the experience as you die, > > > > > > your > > > > > > final second stretching into eternity as your perception of time > > > > > > ceases to > > > > > > be. Thus, as your DMT production spikes, and your prefrontal > > > > > > processes are > > > > > > disconnected from sensory inputs which are shutting down, your > > > > > > logical > > > > > > processes are left with only your subconscious in the final moments > > > > > > before > > > > > > death. All joys, regrets, guilts, achievements, pride, love, are > > > > > > all indexed > > > > > > in that final moment, and the angels or demons that await you in > > > > > > your DMT > > > > > > tunnel are entirely of your own creation. > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Chris Jenkins > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > I think those "mini-fugues" you achieve on limited sleep and > > > > > > > coffee are > > > > > > > most definitely small scale versions of the "spiritual states" > > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > referring to. > > > > > > > Much of the modern resurgence in non-Christian western > > > > > > > spirituality is > > > > > > > influenced is influenced by various cultures who much to say > > > > > > > about the > > > > > > > topic. Most of these cultures were shamanic in nature, and made > > > > > > > use of > > > > > > > psychoactive substances in order to achieve "spiritual > > > > > > > transcendence". The > > > > > > > use of these substances as sacrament has been a cultural > > > > > > > tradition for as > > > > > > > long as humankind has existed. The only religions which don't are > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > which prescribe various forms of asceticism, sadism, or > > > > > > > masochism, all which > > > > > > > in suitable form can release the the cocktail in question. > > > > > > > > The "Spiritual Experience" is the most intense, amazing, > > > > > > > transcendent > > > > > > > hallucinogenic experience a human can have. That process has been > > > > > > > philosophized and analyzed at length by great minds such as > > > > > > > Hoffman, Leary, > > > > > > > Castaneta, and others. The non-random nature of classes of > > > > > > > hallucinogens > > > > > > > allows those states to be of use in guided meditation. They serve > > > > > > > purpose in > > > > > > > ritual. By disconnecting logical thought processes from the > > > > > > > normal channels > > > > > > > of perception, the shaman is forced to face their subconscious. > > > > > > > This is a > > > > > > > journey repeated through out all shamanic traditions. > > > > > > > > In much of the Western New Age movement, elements of shamanic > > > > > > > tradition, > > > > > > > especially Far Eastern and Native American traditions, have been > > > > > > > incorporated into the philosophies, but the psychoactive elements > > > > > > > have all > > > > > > > been removed. Three days of fasting on nothing but pemmican and > > > > > > > water, while > > > > > > > walking through the desert, followed by a night of peyote tea, is > > > > > > > sure to > > > > > > > guarantee a night spent in journey with the Great Spirit. > > > > > > > > That was probably un-necessary history I'm sure, but I wanted to > > > > > > > drive home > > > > > > > the fact that it's really only the very modern groups that tell > > > > > > > you you can > > > > > > > just pop right out if you try hard enough. Almost everyone else > > > > > > > prescribes a > > > > > > > tea, a mushroom, flogging yourself with a whip til you bleed, > > > > > > > flogging > > > > > > > someone else with a whip til they bleed, or spending a year on a > > > > > > > mountain > > > > > > > top drinking water and eating a half cup of rice a day. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Yes I can imagine that accomplishing that state of OBE on one's > > > > > > >> own > > > > > > >> initiative is quite the feat but I'm sure that it's been > > > > > > >> realized by > > > > > > >> some. I've heard of triathlon participants at or near serious > > > > > > >> dehydration levels experiencing a similar state. I know for me > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > >> experience was life changing and still there are days that spend > > > > > > >> considerable time reflecting upon it. I can't say that the > > > > > > >> outcome of > > > > > > >> returning has been all that positive as far as short term memory > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > >> overall recall, not to mention a significant loss in pulmonary > > > > > > >> ability. There are days of highlighted cerebral activity and > > > > > > >> others > > > > > > >> where I'm not sure who I am after 2 cups of coffee. It's a > > > > > > >> strange > > > > > > >> existence but it still works for me and I'm able to spend time > > > > > > >> yaking > > > > > > >> away in here, so that 's good. I've been dreaming very heavily > > > > > > >> this > > > > > > >> week and trying to peace together meanings if any. There is a lot > > > > > > >> going on out there in the beyond. > > > > > > > >> On Feb 16, 4:41 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> > ;) You're not getting my DMT levels too high...and you left out > > > > > > >> Ketamine! > > > > > > >> > What I'm merely stating is that it's not too difficult to > > > > > > >> > understand > > > > > > >> what an > > > > > > >> > OBE is, nor to have one anytime you feel like. Accomplishing > > > > > > >> > that state > > > > > > >> by > > > > > > >> > producing your own DMT is quite a feat, but given what I've > > > > > > >> > seen well > > > > > > >> > trained athletes and martial artists accomplish in altering > > > > > > >> > their > > > > > > >> metabolism > > > > > > >> > on command, I don't have problem believing it's possible. > > > > > > > >> > " I believe there to be a > > > > > > >> > spontaneity aspect of OBE that occurs during spiritual and > > > > > > >> > dream > > > > > > >> > states without any influence from DMT." > > > > > > > >> > While you're dreaming? Well blood hell, of course. I can also > > > > > > >> > fly while > > > > > > >> I'm > > > > > > >> > dreaming, certainly don't need DMT for that. As for "spiritual > > > > > > >> > states", > > > > > > >> I'm > > > > > > >> > not quite sure what you mean by that. If you're talking about > > > > > > >> > being > > > > > > >> awake > > > > > > >> > and in some sort of trance, I'd refer you back to those > > > > > > >> > chemical > > > > > > >> > cocktails...there's loads of research that's quite easy to > > > > > > >> > find on what > > > > > > >> > exactly is going on in the brain in those kinds of "spiritual > > > > > > >> states"...and > > > > > > >> > ruling out DMT, or one of a small handful > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
