Agreed. Not only very Sufi, but insightful as well. I've a different version but still basically the same thing you describe Vam. We are one in and of ourselves with the entire universe ... but just becoming so. We are just beginning to wake up as though we've been in a coma or sleeping state for most of our current journey. We are perhaps just coming into ourselves, just beginning to realize who and what we are. And it is the principles of science which are the product of our awareness, intellect and intelligence which lead me to believe there is much much more following this dimension of life.
On Feb 17, 1:06 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > Chris, SD ! As I know of it, the whole truth ... the ONE ... is > indescribable. This may cliche but it's important that I start with > this. It is also linked with the this discussion on our finite and > infinite nature, elsewhere. > > IT is the SELF, unidentified with anything, beyond this family > ( ancestors, wife, children ... ) - nationality - race related > identity we so easily take on, beyond this possession - linked > identity we so commonly have, beyond this body - centered identity > that is so pathologically ours, beyond this feeling - thought - > imagination we are so automatically attached with, beyond this > knowledge - awareness being we take ourselves to be ... beyond the > least variation and differences in our vision, the WHOLE without parts > or difference, the ONE without a second or another ... ... not > ( just ) this body, not ( just ) this mind ( and intellect ). > > The WHOLE is in our mind. The parts are in our mind. This is a > logically flawed mind. For the WHOLE cannot be ( in the mind ) untill > the mind is without the least awareness of the parts ( in the mind ). > The Self is everything ... covered with bliss ( the source of ego ), > with knowledge ( in the intellect ), with thought ( in the mind ), > with feelings ( in the nerves ), with life ( in the senses ), with > action ( in the body ), with companionship ( in the company of > others ), with richness or possessions ( in the world ) ... And, yet, > this very Self is beyond it all. IT is the WHOLE. > > Chris, we are this Self. THIS Self is ONE. We are not mere bio - > chemical truths. Bio - chemistry and evolution are a manifestation of > this very Self we each are ! > > There is so much more I may yet say. But, what is in my attention > right now is the Estimation software demo I have just attended. I am > pressed for taking forward my attempts to awaken this leviathan that > has hired me ! And, sure, I will. > > Forgive me for the babble. > > On Feb 17, 11:41 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Do you dare to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, > > so help you Zod? > > > On Feb 16, 10:47 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > There is much in your posts that agrees with my experience, Chris. > > > Except that ... even all of that isn't the whole truth ! > > > > On Feb 17, 8:42 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > One other note on this: > > > > The idea of heaven or hell I think was best explored in the movie > > > > 'Waking > > > > Life': > > > > >http://www.foxstore.com/detail.php?item=438 > > > > > The movie posits that heaven or hell is the experience as you die, your > > > > final second stretching into eternity as your perception of time ceases > > > > to > > > > be. Thus, as your DMT production spikes, and your prefrontal processes > > > > are > > > > disconnected from sensory inputs which are shutting down, your logical > > > > processes are left with only your subconscious in the final moments > > > > before > > > > death. All joys, regrets, guilts, achievements, pride, love, are all > > > > indexed > > > > in that final moment, and the angels or demons that await you in your > > > > DMT > > > > tunnel are entirely of your own creation. > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Chris Jenkins > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > I think those "mini-fugues" you achieve on limited sleep and coffee > > > > > are > > > > > most definitely small scale versions of the "spiritual states" you are > > > > > referring to. > > > > > Much of the modern resurgence in non-Christian western spirituality is > > > > > influenced is influenced by various cultures who much to say about the > > > > > topic. Most of these cultures were shamanic in nature, and made use of > > > > > psychoactive substances in order to achieve "spiritual > > > > > transcendence". The > > > > > use of these substances as sacrament has been a cultural tradition > > > > > for as > > > > > long as humankind has existed. The only religions which don't are > > > > > those > > > > > which prescribe various forms of asceticism, sadism, or masochism, > > > > > all which > > > > > in suitable form can release the the cocktail in question. > > > > > > The "Spiritual Experience" is the most intense, amazing, transcendent > > > > > hallucinogenic experience a human can have. That process has been > > > > > philosophized and analyzed at length by great minds such as Hoffman, > > > > > Leary, > > > > > Castaneta, and others. The non-random nature of classes of > > > > > hallucinogens > > > > > allows those states to be of use in guided meditation. They serve > > > > > purpose in > > > > > ritual. By disconnecting logical thought processes from the normal > > > > > channels > > > > > of perception, the shaman is forced to face their subconscious. This > > > > > is a > > > > > journey repeated through out all shamanic traditions. > > > > > > In much of the Western New Age movement, elements of shamanic > > > > > tradition, > > > > > especially Far Eastern and Native American traditions, have been > > > > > incorporated into the philosophies, but the psychoactive elements > > > > > have all > > > > > been removed. Three days of fasting on nothing but pemmican and > > > > > water, while > > > > > walking through the desert, followed by a night of peyote tea, is > > > > > sure to > > > > > guarantee a night spent in journey with the Great Spirit. > > > > > > That was probably un-necessary history I'm sure, but I wanted to > > > > > drive home > > > > > the fact that it's really only the very modern groups that tell you > > > > > you can > > > > > just pop right out if you try hard enough. Almost everyone else > > > > > prescribes a > > > > > tea, a mushroom, flogging yourself with a whip til you bleed, flogging > > > > > someone else with a whip til they bleed, or spending a year on a > > > > > mountain > > > > > top drinking water and eating a half cup of rice a day. > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> Yes I can imagine that accomplishing that state of OBE on one's own > > > > >> initiative is quite the feat but I'm sure that it's been realized by > > > > >> some. I've heard of triathlon participants at or near serious > > > > >> dehydration levels experiencing a similar state. I know for me the > > > > >> experience was life changing and still there are days that spend > > > > >> considerable time reflecting upon it. I can't say that the outcome of > > > > >> returning has been all that positive as far as short term memory and > > > > >> overall recall, not to mention a significant loss in pulmonary > > > > >> ability. There are days of highlighted cerebral activity and others > > > > >> where I'm not sure who I am after 2 cups of coffee. It's a strange > > > > >> existence but it still works for me and I'm able to spend time yaking > > > > >> away in here, so that 's good. I've been dreaming very heavily this > > > > >> week and trying to peace together meanings if any. There is a lot > > > > >> going on out there in the beyond. > > > > > >> On Feb 16, 4:41 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > ;) You're not getting my DMT levels too high...and you left out > > > > >> Ketamine! > > > > >> > What I'm merely stating is that it's not too difficult to > > > > >> > understand > > > > >> what an > > > > >> > OBE is, nor to have one anytime you feel like. Accomplishing that > > > > >> > state > > > > >> by > > > > >> > producing your own DMT is quite a feat, but given what I've seen > > > > >> > well > > > > >> > trained athletes and martial artists accomplish in altering their > > > > >> metabolism > > > > >> > on command, I don't have problem believing it's possible. > > > > > >> > " I believe there to be a > > > > >> > spontaneity aspect of OBE that occurs during spiritual and dream > > > > >> > states without any influence from DMT." > > > > > >> > While you're dreaming? Well blood hell, of course. I can also fly > > > > >> > while > > > > >> I'm > > > > >> > dreaming, certainly don't need DMT for that. As for "spiritual > > > > >> > states", > > > > >> I'm > > > > >> > not quite sure what you mean by that. If you're talking about being > > > > >> awake > > > > >> > and in some sort of trance, I'd refer you back to those chemical > > > > >> > cocktails...there's loads of research that's quite easy to find on > > > > >> > what > > > > >> > exactly is going on in the brain in those kinds of "spiritual > > > > >> states"...and > > > > >> > ruling out DMT, or one of a small handful of other neurochemicals, > > > > >> > would > > > > >> be > > > > >> > a misunderstanding of the processes at play in the brain. > > > > > >> > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > >> > > Easy now Bubba, don't get your DMT level up too high!! I > > > > >> > > didn't say > > > > >> > > it was difficult to understand, it's just that you are making a > > > > >> > > direct > > > > >> > > link seemingly (from my fundamentally vacant mental state) > > > > >> > > discounting > > > > >> > > any other cause for OBE, possibly the insinuation was also on my > > > > >> > > part, > > > > >> > > but I did think that your insinuation was that OBE was only > > > > >> > > attainable > > > > >> > > through DMT. Technically OBE's are associated with NDE's but > > > > >> > > they > > > > >> > > are not exclusively confined to that mode. I believe there to > > > > >> > > be a > > > > >> > > spontaneity aspect of OBE that occurs during spiritual and dream > > > > >> > > states without any influence from DMT. > > > > >> > > I do understand that you are being supportive of my post when > > > > >> > > you are > > > > >> > > saying that DMT had most likely a great influence on my personal > > > > >> > > experience and I agree with that assessment, however, there are > > > > >> > > other > > > > >> > > means of inducing OBE, such as Meditative techniques, Mental and > > > > >> > > Mechanical induction, the Mind Awake Body Asleep state (used by > > > > >> > > Thomas > > > > >> > > Edison), Etc............what I'm saying is that triggers other > > > > >> > > than > > > > >> > > DMT, Dextromethorphan, PCP, and the newest Salvia Divinorum > > > > >> > > exist. > > > > > >> > > On Feb 16, 2:19 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > I'm not insinuating, I'm stating for the record. > > > > >> > > > 1. DMT produces an effect that is similar in nature for all > > ... > > read more ยป --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
