If we planted the seed of Unity it wouldn't be that far away. peace & Love
> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:25:51 -0700 > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > > Amartya Sen and co are here working on draft of a Right To Food act > for the cabinet, to be introduced in the parliament. His interviews on > Justice, and all factors converging on it, had critically reasoned > elements. > > Our education system must create and meet the desire to know, to > analyse and synthesise, and to critically examine, followed up with > employable skills. People must be helped to being without this stress > and insecurity drivenness that distorts the very personality, fills us > with the grab - all attitude, and takes the joy of being out of us > except in the exercise of power and pride of posssession. > > However, restoration of the ( of, by and for the people ) government > to the people is far, far away. > > On Aug 10, 7:18 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think it's rather unfair to think of unscientific America - there is > > little of the scientific world-view across the world. Orn always > > correctly points out that science is just part of something else, and > > scientists come with their own baggage of interests. > > When it comes to schooling there is little doubt we get a huge amount > > wrong as the system seems intent on accreditation of meritocracy and > > justifying acquisition > > of wealth rather than helping us form a virtuous society. The elite > > have long been schooling their own well away from the rest, and it has > > long seemed to me that we force much that is irrelevant down the > > throats of anyone participating and are actually forcing more people > > into failure despite handing out more and more certificates. > > Bankers tell us they need to pay massive fees to get and retain the > > right people, as though what they do is very difficult and only a tiny > > few can do it - the rest of us will be doomed to failure unless they > > can pay their bonuses etc. Yet no scientific analysis can show that > > this bwanking stuff is actually difficult or even what it really is. > > This is Chris' hiding the obvious in plain view. We are donkeys if we > > swallow this guff. Talk of single Gaussian copula maths (actually > > just a variant on frequency distribution) covers the placing of pigs > > in pokes and the growth of magic beans. > > 'Power talk' is actually as backward and mythical as creationism, and > > we are all schooled in it, even if we have only learned to kow-tow or > > sing from the hymn-sheet as politicians and never drift off-message. > > Science has failed to become as big a part of our lives as it should > > because it has always remained part of a political mess that we are > > scared to address. My guess is that we are taught to be scared. > > In the end I don't see education as the answer - at least not schools > > and universities. We have to dare to do something different. I'd > > start with giving everyone the right to work and a requirement to work > > towards peaceful and resilient societies. This requires us to > > recognise we don't have to rip-off other people and the planet to > > achieve peace and resilience. For all our science and education we > > haven't even been able to agree on this, surely a sign our education > > is a failure? > > > > On 10 Aug, 01:17, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I trust some teacher's, doctors and 'we the people'. But certainly > > > not all of them. I'd like to be able to chose the ones I like and pay > > > them what I think they're worth. Let's not forget 'we the people' > > > gave us President George W Bush. For two terms. > > > > > As for trust I use it selectively. Trust but verify works for me. > > > Perhaps I'd rather be able to decide how best to spend my tax dollars > > > on my children's education. Perhaps I'm not too concerned about > > > convicts sharing cells and showers. If it was up to me I'd have them > > > sharing cots in 3 shifts and working 14 hours a day 6 days a week to > > > earn privileges and cigarettes or conjugal visits. Perhaps I think MY > > > excellent insurance will evaporate under universal government > > > subsidized health care and I'll be forced into standing in line with > > > the huddled masses. > > > > > What could be more equal then giving every child a 9,500 dollar a year > > > voucher to attend the private school of their choice? The biggest > > > mistake government makes is thinking we're all a bunch of morons that > > > need to constantly be taken care of. What? Public school teachers > > > support teachers unions and don't like vouchers? I am shocked! > > > > > Yeah, I know all about the former Enron adviser Paul Krugman. He used > > > to be an economist before he became a cheerleader fro the democratic > > > party in the pages of the NYT;s. He's actually calling for MORE > > > stimulus money. I know which propagandists I plan to ignore the > > > advice of. > > > > > dj > > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:42 PM, ornamentalmind<[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Not nuff!!!! Perhaps you do not trust teachers with teaching…I do. > > > > Perhaps you do not trust doctors with practicing medicine … I do. > > > > Perhaps you do not trust ‘we the people’ when it comes to government…I > > > > do. > > > > > > Perhaps you do trust politicians when it comes to what children learn > > > > in school as well as to what books they have. Perhaps you trust > > > > religions when it comes to education and what children learn. Perhaps > > > > you think that the main reason our prisons are overflowing has nothing > > > > to do with their privatization. Perhaps you think that a single payer > > > > universal health plan will be both more expensive and less affective > > > > than the privatized system we have now. I don’t know. > > > > > > There are some things that the government is good for and some things > > > > where other systems are better. The founders defined the general areas > > > > of responsibility. > > > > > > When it comes to financing education, the inefficiency and inequality > > > > of the voucher system is not good for society on many fronts. . . > > > > including, but in no way limited to the lack of separation between > > > > church and state, a politicized system of education, a lack of a > > > > homogeneous and egalitarian system altogether. > > > > > > Ask some of the teachers here about those ‘large offices for > > > > administration’ in grades 12 and under…while some may not like the > > > > thinking of some of the people in said offices, few are large nor not > > > > needed. And, where would the unruly be sent? ….to the police station? > > > > Perhaps we could privatize the principle’s job and bring in > > > > Blackwater! Seriously, while about 45% of students in, say Detroit do > > > > not graduate from high school today, things were different prior to > > > > the voucher system. I seem to remember decades ago that those who > > > > skipped school actually had people sent out to get them! Vouchers have > > > > little to do with what is learned. The main reason for a poorer > > > > education system today is the aftershock of the tax revolt in > > > > California from 1978 having to do with proposition 13. > > > >http://www.soapblox.com/index.php?p=198 > > > > The result over the last 30 years is obvious. Yes, a few of the > > > > wealthy now spend less on taxes and more of the poor spend more…the > > > > result is less money for the public good. The graduated income tax was > > > > working quite well until it was broken apart by avarice. It is no > > > > accident that this is a ‘sin’ in many religions. > > > > > > When it comes to teacher and other unions, the propaganda found in the > > > > media is legion. Having a few teachers in the family, I wish the > > > > unions were even more powerful…teaching and the supporting systems > > > > have changed drastically due to politics over the last 30 years and > > > > for the worse in general. This had precious little to do with the > > > > teachers themselves. They were not nearly as powerful as congress nor > > > > the corporate activists. > > > > > > The days for slogans is long over if we wish to rebuild what has been > > > > destroyed over the last handful of decades. In other words, ignore > > > > corporate news outlets. > > > > > > On Aug 9, 2:16 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Now that news = infotainment and consumerism; and politics = vested > > > > > >> > interests of those who pay lobbiests the most, all that is needed is > > > >> > to finish the privatization of the public education along with > > > >> > raising > > > >> > the cost to levels only the wealthy can afford. > > > > > >> ? -privatization would increase competition and costs would probably > > > >> decrease. Perhaps classes would no longer need to be carried out in > > > >> palaces with huge offices for administrators but the quality of > > > >> education would increase for those actually interested in learning. > > > >> Check the success of vouchers in the DC area over the last several > > > >> years Orn. It might be enlightening. No lobby is more powerful or > > > >> more well taken care of then the Teachers Unions. nuff said. > > > > > >> dj > > > > > >> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 3:41 PM, > > > >> ornamentalmind<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > Now that news = infotainment and consumerism; and politics = vested > > > >> > interests of those who pay lobbiests the most, all that is needed is > > > >> > to finish the privatization of the public education along with > > > >> > raising > > > >> > the cost to levels only the wealthy can afford. > > > > > >> > On Aug 9, 8:01 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> On 9 Aug., 16:21, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> The> problem here is not with public engagement in science - it is > > > >> >> with > > > >> >> > public engagement. > > > > > >> >> On first glance it seems paradoxical - thanks to the internet, there > > > >> >> is (almost) complete freedom of information and discussion, yet the > > > >> >> public forum is increasingly in the hands of a few transnational > > > >> >> media > > > >> >> superpowers. It's no longer necessary to censor and ban, the > > > >> >> critical, > > > >> >> questioning voices are simply ignored, fragmented into millions of > > > >> >> blog-opinions reaching millions of isolated individuals. Perhaps the > > > >> >> developing social networks are a scene where new things can appear. > > > > > >> >> I think our education systems are an area where change is > > > >> >> desperately > > > >> >> needed. Our children and young people are being fed with useless > > > >> >> facts > > > >> >> and interpretations, drilled to regurgitate systemic nonsense. They > > > >> >> are not being thought to think for themselves, to question, or how > > > >> >> to > > > >> >> learn. Instead the emphasis is on producing performing peons who can > > > >> >> be satisfied with panem et circenses (something which, in our media- > > > >> >> driven public consciousness, has been turned into an ubiquitous > > > >> >> supreme art-form). Pimp my life! > > > > > >> >> Francis- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > _________________________________________________________________ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
