The underlying problem in the U.S. is poor education in math and science at the elementary level. Education has generally fallen off with tax cutting since the 1980s, but math and science have fallen particularly. Some of this comes from the fact that able teachers can earn far more in industry, but some comes from the influence of what H. L. Mencken called the "booboisie" back in the 1920s, particularly with the political wars over evolution making school boards reluctant to push science at all. Because of the falloff in science at the basic levels, fewer Americans understand anything about scientific method, let alone the corpus of knowledge that science has accumulated. That's why it's hard to make people speak intelligently about scientific issues in public fora.
On Aug 11, 7:34 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I go quite a way with rigsby on the practical element of science - > farming is the classic example. Unity seems pretty well unattainable > in physics, let alone human affairs. However, it remains relevant in > theorising what we are hoping to achieve. > > On 11 Aug, 07:05, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Tinker do yo ever say anything other than you are in gagaa land? > > Allan > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Tinker tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > You're way behind Slip ole buddy. > > > I'm onto the Feeling now, haven't used the "thing" since I turned you on > > > to > > > the web site. > > > > If you need tutoring off forum, I'll be happy to help you out :-) > > > > peace & Love > > > > > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:14:10 -0700 > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Maybe if you stop using the word "thing" someone might be able to > > > > visualize. > > > > > The only visualization I get from the word "thing" is............. > > > >http://images.google.com/images?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=... > > > > > You see Tinker, people should get more than just simple words like "my > > > > idea" and the "thing" that you have been talking about for months. > > > > > Perhaps you just don't understand and it is beyond your grasp. If you > > > > could just let me know what it is you don't understand. > > > > > On Aug 10, 8:02 pm, Tinker tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Thank you sir, for an honest reply. > > > > > > I don't have a dream, I do see a possibility. > > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:34:33 -0700 > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > I don't have to try and misunderstand, it comes naturally. ;-] > > > > > > > All I'm saying is that 'One'-ness is a dream you may have, that I > > > find > > > > > > impossible to even begin to contemplate. No symbol, thought, > > > religion, > > > > > > God, drug or anything else will create Unity in my opinion. > > > > > > > On Aug 10, 7:08 pm, Tinker tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > There you go again, not trying to understand. > > > > > > > > ""the" seed" It has to be a thing of 'One'-ness. > > > > > > > Like something we all have in common recognized with a Universal > > > symbol. > > > > > > > The many seeds you are talking about are not of Unity. > > > > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:36:36 -0700 > > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > Although one may somehow plant seeds of unity until they are > > > > > > > > blue > > > in > > > > > > > > the face, IMO there is not enough water on the planet to make > > > > > > > > all > > > the > > > > > > > > seeds turn into plants. Even if some seeds started to grow, the > > > > > > > > massive boots of greed, power, and religious diversity would > > > > > > > > soon > > > > > > > > trample them back into the earth. Pessimistic? Unfortunately I > > > feel it > > > > > > > > is realistic. Not to say that one shouldn't try. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 10, 6:01 pm, Tinker tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > If we planted the seed of Unity it wouldn't be that far away. > > > > > > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:25:51 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > Amartya Sen and co are here working on draft of a Right To > > > Food act > > > > > > > > > > for the cabinet, to be introduced in the parliament. His > > > interviews on > > > > > > > > > > Justice, and all factors converging on it, had critically > > > reasoned > > > > > > > > > > elements. > > > > > > > > > > > Our education system must create and meet the desire to > > > > > > > > > > know, > > > to > > > > > > > > > > analyse and synthesise, and to critically examine, followed > > > up with > > > > > > > > > > employable skills. People must be helped to being without > > > this stress > > > > > > > > > > and insecurity drivenness that distorts the very > > > > > > > > > > personality, > > > fills us > > > > > > > > > > with the grab - all attitude, and takes the joy of being out > > > of us > > > > > > > > > > except in the exercise of power and pride of posssession. > > > > > > > > > > > However, restoration of the ( of, by and for the people ) > > > government > > > > > > > > > > to the people is far, far away. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 10, 7:18 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's rather unfair to think of unscientific > > > > > > > > > > > America > > > - there is > > > > > > > > > > > little of the scientific world-view across the world. Orn > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > correctly points out that science is just part of > > > > > > > > > > > something > > > else, and > > > > > > > > > > > scientists come with their own baggage of interests. > > > > > > > > > > > When it comes to schooling there is little doubt we get a > > > huge amount > > > > > > > > > > > wrong as the system seems intent on accreditation of > > > meritocracy and > > > > > > > > > > > justifying acquisition > > > > > > > > > > > of wealth rather than helping us form a virtuous society. > > > The elite > > > > > > > > > > > have long been schooling their own well away from the > > > > > > > > > > > rest, > > > and it has > > > > > > > > > > > long seemed to me that we force much that is irrelevant > > > down the > > > > > > > > > > > throats of anyone participating and are actually forcing > > > more people > > > > > > > > > > > into failure despite handing out more and more > > > certificates. > > > > > > > > > > > Bankers tell us they need to pay massive fees to get and > > > retain the > > > > > > > > > > > right people, as though what they do is very difficult and > > > only a tiny > > > > > > > > > > > few can do it - the rest of us will be doomed to failure > > > unless they > > > > > > > > > > > can pay their bonuses etc. Yet no scientific analysis can > > > show that > > > > > > > > > > > this bwanking stuff is actually difficult or even what it > > > really is. > > > > > > > > > > > This is Chris' hiding the obvious in plain view. We are > > > donkeys if we > > > > > > > > > > > swallow this guff. Talk of single Gaussian copula maths > > > (actually > > > > > > > > > > > just a variant on frequency distribution) covers the > > > placing of pigs > > > > > > > > > > > in pokes and the growth of magic beans. > > > > > > > > > > > 'Power talk' is actually as backward and mythical as > > > creationism, and > > > > > > > > > > > we are all schooled in it, even if we have only learned to > > > kow-tow or > > > > > > > > > > > sing from the hymn-sheet as politicians and never drift > > > off-message. > > > > > > > > > > > Science has failed to become as big a part of our lives as > > > it should > > > > > > > > > > > because it has always remained part of a political mess > > > that we are > > > > > > > > > > > scared to address. My guess is that we are taught to be > > > scared. > > > > > > > > > > > In the end I don't see education as the answer - at least > > > not schools > > > > > > > > > > > and universities. We have to dare to do something > > > different. I'd > > > > > > > > > > > start with giving everyone the right to work and a > > > requirement to work > > > > > > > > > > > towards peaceful and resilient societies. This requires > > > > > > > > > > > us > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > recognise we don't have to rip-off other people and the > > > planet to > > > > > > > > > > > achieve peace and resilience. For all our science and > > > education we > > > > > > > > > > > haven't even been able to agree on this, surely a sign our > > > education > > > > > > > > > > > is a failure? > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10 Aug, 01:17, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I trust some teacher's, doctors and 'we the people'. > > > > > > > > > > > > But > > > certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > not all of them. I'd like to be able to chose the ones > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > like and pay > > > > > > > > > > > > them what I think they're worth. Let's not forget 'we > > > the people' > > > > > > > > > > > > gave us President George W Bush. For two terms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for trust I use it selectively. Trust but verify > > > works for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps I'd rather be able to decide how best to spend > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > tax dollars > > > > > > > > > > > > on my children's education. Perhaps I'm not too > > > concerned about > > > > > > > > > > > > convicts sharing cells and showers. If it was up to me > > > I'd have them > > > > > > > > > > > > sharing cots in 3 shifts and working 14 hours a day 6 > > > days a week to > > > > > > > > > > > > earn privileges and cigarettes or conjugal visits. > > > Perhaps I think MY > > > > > > > > > > > > excellent insurance will evaporate under universal > > > government > > > > > > > > > > > > subsidized health care and I'll be forced into standing > > > in line with > > > > > > > > > > > > the huddled masses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What could be more equal then giving every child a 9,500 > > > dollar a year > > > > > > > > > > > > voucher to attend the private school of their choice? > > > The biggest > > > > > > > > > > > > mistake government makes is thinking we're all a bunch > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > morons that > > > > > > > > > > > > need to constantly be taken care of. What? Public > > > school teachers > > > > > > > > > > > > support teachers unions and don't like vouchers? I am > > > shocked! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I know all about the former Enron adviser Paul > > > Krugman. He used > > > > > > > > > > > > to be an economist before he became a cheerleader fro > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > democratic > > > > > > > > > > > > party in the pages of the NYT;s. He's actually calling > > > for MORE > > > > > > > > > > > > stimulus money. I know which propagandists I plan to > > > ignore the > > > > > > > > > > > > advice of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > dj > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:42 PM, ornamentalmind< > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not nuff!!!! Perhaps you do not trust teachers with > > > teaching…I do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you do not trust doctors with practicing > > > medicine … I do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you do not trust ‘we the people’ when it comes > > > to government…I > > > ... > > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
