We've had a few laughs at the sounding-off against our health service by the US right-wing of late. Rather than just a lack of scientific understanding, this seems like an ideological madness. It's deeper than what schools manage to do and something I've rarely met amongst US academics.
On 13 Aug, 19:46, RichardM <[email protected]> wrote: > The underlying problem in the U.S. is poor education in math and > science at the elementary level. Education has generally fallen off > with tax cutting since the 1980s, but math and science have fallen > particularly. Some of this comes from the fact that able teachers can > earn far more in industry, but some comes from the influence of what > H. L. Mencken called the "booboisie" back in the 1920s, particularly > with the political wars over evolution making school boards reluctant > to push science at all. Because of the falloff in science at the > basic levels, fewer Americans understand anything about scientific > method, let alone the corpus of knowledge that science has > accumulated. That's why it's hard to make people speak intelligently > about scientific issues in public fora. > > On Aug 11, 7:34 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I go quite a way with rigsby on the practical element of science - > > farming is the classic example. Unity seems pretty well unattainable > > in physics, let alone human affairs. However, it remains relevant in > > theorising what we are hoping to achieve. > > > On 11 Aug, 07:05, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Tinker do yo ever say anything other than you are in gagaa land? > > > Allan > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Tinker tinker <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > You're way behind Slip ole buddy. > > > > I'm onto the Feeling now, haven't used the "thing" since I turned you > > > > on to > > > > the web site. > > > > > If you need tutoring off forum, I'll be happy to help you out :-) > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:14:10 -0700 > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Maybe if you stop using the word "thing" someone might be able to > > > > > visualize. > > > > > > The only visualization I get from the word "thing" is............. > > > > >http://images.google.com/images?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=... > > > > > > You see Tinker, people should get more than just simple words like "my > > > > > idea" and the "thing" that you have been talking about for months. > > > > > > Perhaps you just don't understand and it is beyond your grasp. If you > > > > > could just let me know what it is you don't understand. > > > > > > On Aug 10, 8:02 pm, Tinker tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you sir, for an honest reply. > > > > > > > I don't have a dream, I do see a possibility. > > > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:34:33 -0700 > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > I don't have to try and misunderstand, it comes naturally. ;-] > > > > > > > > All I'm saying is that 'One'-ness is a dream you may have, that I > > > > find > > > > > > > impossible to even begin to contemplate. No symbol, thought, > > > > religion, > > > > > > > God, drug or anything else will create Unity in my opinion. > > > > > > > > On Aug 10, 7:08 pm, Tinker tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > There you go again, not trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > ""the" seed" It has to be a thing of 'One'-ness. > > > > > > > > Like something we all have in common recognized with a Universal > > > > symbol. > > > > > > > > The many seeds you are talking about are not of Unity. > > > > > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:36:36 -0700 > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > Although one may somehow plant seeds of unity until they are > > > > > > > > > blue > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the face, IMO there is not enough water on the planet to make > > > > > > > > > all > > > > the > > > > > > > > > seeds turn into plants. Even if some seeds started to grow, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > massive boots of greed, power, and religious diversity would > > > > > > > > > soon > > > > > > > > > trample them back into the earth. Pessimistic? Unfortunately I > > > > feel it > > > > > > > > > is realistic. Not to say that one shouldn't try. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 10, 6:01 pm, Tinker tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If we planted the seed of Unity it wouldn't be that far > > > > > > > > > > away. > > > > > > > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:25:51 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: unscientific America? > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > Amartya Sen and co are here working on draft of a Right To > > > > Food act > > > > > > > > > > > for the cabinet, to be introduced in the parliament. His > > > > interviews on > > > > > > > > > > > Justice, and all factors converging on it, had critically > > > > reasoned > > > > > > > > > > > elements. > > > > > > > > > > > > Our education system must create and meet the desire to > > > > > > > > > > > know, > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > analyse and synthesise, and to critically examine, > > > > > > > > > > > followed > > > > up with > > > > > > > > > > > employable skills. People must be helped to being without > > > > this stress > > > > > > > > > > > and insecurity drivenness that distorts the very > > > > > > > > > > > personality, > > > > fills us > > > > > > > > > > > with the grab - all attitude, and takes the joy of being > > > > > > > > > > > out > > > > of us > > > > > > > > > > > except in the exercise of power and pride of posssession. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, restoration of the ( of, by and for the people ) > > > > government > > > > > > > > > > > to the people is far, far away. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 10, 7:18 am, archytas <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's rather unfair to think of unscientific > > > > > > > > > > > > America > > > > - there is > > > > > > > > > > > > little of the scientific world-view across the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > Orn > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > correctly points out that science is just part of > > > > > > > > > > > > something > > > > else, and > > > > > > > > > > > > scientists come with their own baggage of interests. > > > > > > > > > > > > When it comes to schooling there is little doubt we get > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > huge amount > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong as the system seems intent on accreditation of > > > > meritocracy and > > > > > > > > > > > > justifying acquisition > > > > > > > > > > > > of wealth rather than helping us form a virtuous > > > > > > > > > > > > society. > > > > The elite > > > > > > > > > > > > have long been schooling their own well away from the > > > > > > > > > > > > rest, > > > > and it has > > > > > > > > > > > > long seemed to me that we force much that is irrelevant > > > > down the > > > > > > > > > > > > throats of anyone participating and are actually forcing > > > > more people > > > > > > > > > > > > into failure despite handing out more and more > > > > certificates. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bankers tell us they need to pay massive fees to get and > > > > retain the > > > > > > > > > > > > right people, as though what they do is very difficult > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > only a tiny > > > > > > > > > > > > few can do it - the rest of us will be doomed to failure > > > > unless they > > > > > > > > > > > > can pay their bonuses etc. Yet no scientific analysis > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > show that > > > > > > > > > > > > this bwanking stuff is actually difficult or even what > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > really is. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is Chris' hiding the obvious in plain view. We are > > > > donkeys if we > > > > > > > > > > > > swallow this guff. Talk of single Gaussian copula maths > > > > (actually > > > > > > > > > > > > just a variant on frequency distribution) covers the > > > > placing of pigs > > > > > > > > > > > > in pokes and the growth of magic beans. > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Power talk' is actually as backward and mythical as > > > > creationism, and > > > > > > > > > > > > we are all schooled in it, even if we have only learned > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > kow-tow or > > > > > > > > > > > > sing from the hymn-sheet as politicians and never drift > > > > off-message. > > > > > > > > > > > > Science has failed to become as big a part of our lives > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > it should > > > > > > > > > > > > because it has always remained part of a political mess > > > > that we are > > > > > > > > > > > > scared to address. My guess is that we are taught to be > > > > scared. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end I don't see education as the answer - at > > > > > > > > > > > > least > > > > not schools > > > > > > > > > > > > and universities. We have to dare to do something > > > > different. I'd > > > > > > > > > > > > start with giving everyone the right to work and a > > > > requirement to work > > > > > > > > > > > > towards peaceful and resilient societies. This > > > > > > > > > > > > requires us > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > recognise we don't have to rip-off other people and the > > > > planet to > > > > > > > > > > > > achieve peace and resilience. For all our science and > > > > education we > > > > > > > > > > > > haven't even been able to agree on this, surely a sign > > > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > education > > > > > > > > > > > > is a failure? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10 Aug, 01:17, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I trust some teacher's, doctors and 'we the people'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But > > > > certainly > > > > > > > > > > > > > not all of them. I'd like to be able to chose the > > > > > > > > > > > > > ones I > > > > like and pay > > > > > > > > > > > > > them what I think they're worth. Let's not forget 'we > > > > the people' > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave us President George W Bush. For two terms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for trust I use it selectively. Trust but verify > > > > works for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps I'd rather be able to decide how best to > > > > > > > > > > > > > spend my > > > > tax dollars > > > > > > > > > > > > > on my children's education. Perhaps I'm not too > > > > concerned about > > > > > > > > > > > > > convicts sharing cells and showers. If it was up to > > > > > > > > > > > > > me > > > > I'd have them > > > > > > > > > > > > > sharing cots in 3 shifts and working 14 hours > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
