RP I have been lost as to what you are arguing there are some laws you can not change, but those laws are like thing example the speed of light,, but even that can be changed some what. I think what every one is talking about is the freedom of choice is in the nature of my taking my browning high power and deciding to airiate your head by putting several round through it. For me to do that would be totally of my choice. Now the only genetic part of it is that I am very capable of doing it and have had the training to develop the skills in handling the weapon. What keeps me from doing it is I choose not to. You can always find some argument to fit your view but when you are staring down the business end it stops being illusionary and you start praying the holder is not nuts. Allan
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 3:08 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > We are the agents and therefore do everything which gives a false notion of > freedom , but actually whatever we do it is by God given Nature. Our > personality is an outcome of the interaction of our genetic makeup with the > environment , both of which are in the hands of nature. Our will to strive , > to control , to improve is innate in us and is therefore genetic in nature. > It is all a chain , one thing leads to another which gives us a false notion > of independence because our independence is dependent on so many factors , > some of which are under our control but that control is illusory as it is > due to the chain. The end result must be seen in the perspective of the > previous causative factors. > > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 5:35 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> We just have different ideas about this and that's okay. I think we >> also participate in our own corruption- often- but it is easier to >> blame others or the situation. Our innate nature at birth is one of >> potential and quite dependent on a multitude of factors. I do not >> blame God nor think Him malevolent as we have free will within the >> constuct of Determinism- an unsolveable. The brain can trump Nature, >> in my opinion though we are bound. >> >> On Nov 20, 8:13 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> > A man's innate nature is corrupted by others and that is not in one's >> hands. >> > Nature from inside and outside a person determines all actions, so >> whatever >> > happens it is ultimately God's will and there is nothing presumptuous >> in >> > accepting and recognizing that. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:23 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > For some it is the struggle to survive rather than strive.//You might >> > > want to acqaint yourself with Thomas Hardy- an early influence- esp. >> > > his "Tess of the D'Ubervilles" and "Jude the Obscure".//American >> > > Democracy lures immigrants with freedom but materialism suffocates >> > > them with greed and envy despite their often good nature and >> > > generosity.//I do think it presumptuous to decide God's plan for our >> > > lives- there are too many surprises along the way. Plus our innate >> > > nature can be corrupted in several ways. Adam and Eve wound up >> > > dysfunctional- look at Cain and Abel! >> > >> > > Have wounded a thumb slicing a potato on the mandolin (a kitchen >> > > tool). Difficult to type and surf. :-( >> > >> > > On Nov 19, 4:29 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > The " I " is self-sense which is just a reflection of the Self or >> God. >> > > Our >> > > > will is totally bound by nature , when we strive and struggle it is >> > > because >> > > > of our innate nature which was given to us. The effect is always a >> result >> > > of >> > > > the cause and not vice versa. >> > >> > > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:43 AM, [email protected] < >> > >> > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > RP Singh. >> > >> > > > > So it is not you then? What is you? When people say that we can >> > > > > achive via the application of our will what does this mean? >> > >> > > > > There is I think in all of us a sense of 'Self''. What then is >> this >> > > > > Self? >> > >> > > > > On Nov 18, 5:01 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > " My " or " will " is the agent of Nature and is bound by It >> though >> > > > > seeming >> > > > > > to be free. >> > >> > > > > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 9:36 PM, [email protected] < >> > >> > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > RP Singh, >> > >> > > > > > > I agree we are all products of our enviroments, I cannot cease >> to >> > > have >> > > > > > > dark hair even if I wished, but I can choose to apply some dye >> to >> > > it. >> > >> > > > > > > You used the word 'MY' quiet a lot in your response to me, >> along >> > > with >> > > > > > > the word 'WILL'. If you have no choice then what is this will >> you >> > > > > > > speak of? Who's will is it, how do you Will to strive? >> > >> > > > > > > On Nov 18, 3:19 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > As a new-born I had a short or long nose , blue or black >> eyes , >> > > > > blonde or >> > > > > > > > black hair, or a white or black complexion------------ was >> it >> > > > > determined >> > > > > > > by >> > > > > > > > me , no it was in my genes. I was not responsible for my >> genes >> > > and >> > > > > > > whoever >> > > > > > > > else was responsible but I was bound to them. Similarly my >> reason >> > > was >> > > > > > > sharp >> > > > > > > > or dull , my imagination was keen or dull , my grasping >> power >> > > was >> > > > > good >> > > > > > > or >> > > > > > > > otherwise -- all such things were due to my genes. The >> > > environment in >> > > > > > > which >> > > > > > > > I was born was not of my making , yet it acted and reacted >> on me >> > > and >> > > > > I >> > > > > > > acted >> > > > > > > > and reacted to it. My personality which eventually developed >> was >> > > a >> > > > > result >> > > > > > > of >> > > > > > > > this interaction and my will to strive , to improve myself , >> to >> > > learn >> > > > > > > > ----was innate in me and not of my own making. So if these >> things >> > > > > were >> > > > > > > not >> > > > > > > > in my hands I can say that I am bound even though seeming to >> be >> > > free. >> > >> > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 2:32 PM, >> [email protected] < >> > >> > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > Ohh how I disagree with this. >> > >> > > > > > > > > It is clear that who we are, our very personalities are >> made >> > > from >> > > > > not >> > > > > > > > > only our experiances but our enviroment. Are we really >> not >> > > free >> > > > > > > > > though to make of ourselves something other than what we >> are? >> > >> > > > > > > > > Yes yes of course we are. The key is understanding, if we >> can >> > > > > > > > > understand what in our lives has made us 'Us' then we can >> > > surly >> > > > > > > > > change in any mannor we wish. Of course this must be true >> or >> > > > > things >> > > > > > > > > like cognative therapy would just not work. >> > >> > > > > > > > > On Nov 16, 3:29 pm, RP <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > Man is bound by his actions and bound to his >> experiences. >> > > > > Whatever >> > > > > > > > > > actions have to be done man is bound by them , as also >> > > whatever >> > > > > > > > > > experiences he undergoes he is bound to them. People say >> > > > > marriages >> > > > > > > are >> > > > > > > > > > made in heaven , I say every action and every experience >> is >> > > > > destined >> > > > > > > > > > in heaven. In big things we are able to accept bondage >> but in >> > > > > small >> > > > > > > > > > things we think we are free , we are able to accept the >> > > > > importance of >> > > > > > > > > > our genes as also our environment , but our reason finds >> it >> > > hard >> > > > > to >> > > > > > > > > > understand and accept complete bondage.- Hide quoted >> text - >> > >> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - > > > -- ( ) I_D Allan Be Paranoid. God is always building a better idiot!!!
