IMO a person sitting on death row is there because he had no concern for the victims rights. Why should he be afforded more rights than the person he killed?
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:03 AM, [email protected] < [email protected]> wrote: > Hey Chuck, > > That is an interesting question and I will get to it, first though you > showed me yours and so it is only fair that I show you mine. > > I too am against the death penalty. With me though it is a liberal > application of the golden rule that has swayed me to my position. > > I belive that we each have the right to make choices for ourselves, I > belive then also that to remove the choice of choice from a person is > a great sin. So death impossed upon you by another takes not only the > choice to live from you, but also all future choices. > > I belive it is right to imprison the probable guilty, as I belive it > is right for the mother of a starving child to steal to feed that > child, if that is the only choice left to her. Heh a cop out? well > I'll let you answer that one. > > > > On May 12, 6:11 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I am against the death penalty. > > > > Not because I think it is wrong to kill another human. But because I feel > > that the legal system has too many flaws to make reliable judgments on a > > persons life. > > > > But then, this is a rich society that can afford to support it's > criminals. > > In a third world country where villages are barely scraping by as it is I > > think the criteria for deciding death might be different. Do you support > the > > incarceration of someone who is probably guilty or save a starving child? > > > > BTW, that wasn't an implication to save the starving child by feeding him > a > > criminal. Maybe feed the criminal to a goat who would in turn supply milk > > for the child. :) > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:25 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > I don't know that I agree with the second part. It seems to me that > > > one moral rule that mostly all societys have is about killing and how > > > imorral it is. > > > > > However non of that answers my question on your stance on the death > > > penalty Chuck? > > > > > On May 12, 2:15 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > To the individual life seems important. But, as I said in another > post, > > > life > > > > to society in general seems to have little value. Why would the life > of a > > > > convict who commits a horrendous crime have any more value than > soldiers > > > > sent off to fight in a war? > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:43 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Indeed it is, you'll get no argument otherwise from me on that > score. > > > > > How can it not be? Who else can say that you are happy or fulfield > > > > > but yourself? > > > > > > > What though of your stance on the dealth penalty and why Chuck? > > > > > > > On May 12, 1:39 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > One could argue that a mentally handicapped individual is happy > and > > > > > > fulfilled. To be honest, I don't even know what that means. Does > > > > > fulfillment > > > > > > imply that one has reached some significant milestone in life? > > > > > > > > Whatever the meaning, personal fulfillment only characterizes the > > > value > > > > > of > > > > > > one's own life. Not the lives of others. It is a subjective value > > > > > judgment > > > > > > made by the individual and not by society. > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:06 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Haha a brilliant answer Chuck, yes for some I guess it does all > > > depend > > > > > > > on how much we vaule life. > > > > > > > > > Myself, I'm sorta with you, we are here for an insicnificant > amount > > > of > > > > > > > time, life can seem futile, that though is if we appraoch the > > > question > > > > > > > in a nihlistic way. Others would argue that life is what you > make > > > it, > > > > > > > and what you make of your short time here is more important > than > > > simpy > > > > > > > beeing alive. I mean of course a life spent in agony and > > > unhappiness > > > > > > > is not a life at all, but one spent happy and fullfiled would > be, > > > well > > > > > > > happy and fullfiled. > > > > > > > > > What do you think though Chuck? > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 12:29 pm, Chuck Bowling < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Humans are on this earth for a tiny sliver of time. The > impact we > > > > > have on > > > > > > > > the universe as individuals is minute. To believe that we are > > > somehow > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > than that is pure hubris on our parts. > > > > > > > > > > The inevitability of death makes life an exercise in > futility. We > > > > > have > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > one purpose which is to spawn. Once that is finished we sit > > > around > > > > > and > > > > > > > > twiddle our thumbs until death. > > > > > > > > > > That said, I guess being for or against the death penalty > depends > > > on > > > > > how > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > value life. IMO, we are all just meat. If politicians can > send > > > > > teenagers > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > to fight for oil and hundreds of children die of starvation > in > > > third > > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > countries while the obesity epidemic in America grows without > > > bounds > > > > > then > > > > > > > > life must not be very valuable. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:59 AM, > [email protected] < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hey Chuck, > > > > > > > > > > > It's an interesting thought experiment to consider why we > are > > > for > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > agianst the death penalty. I'll go right ahead and > proclaim > > > that I > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > against it in all case. > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps not for the reasons you might think, and I'll get > to > > > them > > > > > > > > > eventualy but I would first like to hear others thoughts. > Of > > > > > course I > > > > > > > > > belive OM (and maybe Amanda?) probably knows my reasoning, > he > > > and > > > > > I, > > > > > > > > > as he keeps telling me, have bashed about a lot of our > ideas > > > over > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 11:43 am, Chuck Bowling < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Not really. I do 3d illustration/animation and video > edits. > > > It > > > > > takes > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > than just a little cut & paste to produce a convincing > fake. > > > I'm > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > saying > > > > > > > > > > that it can't be done. I'm sure that there are government > > > > > agencies > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > lots > > > > > > > > > > of money to throw around who could do it but I'd be > pretty > > > > > skeptical > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > someone's defense rested on conspiracies by men in black. > > > > > > > > > > > > As to the justice system, I never said that it was > perfect. > > > In > > > > > fact, > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > it is very flawed. Often cases are prosecuted based not > on > > > guilt > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > innocence but on political agendas. > > > > > > > > > > > > But then as I said before, IMO defendants should never be > put > > > on > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > row > > > > > > > > > > unless the evidence is incontrovertible. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 3:52 AM, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and as what is perhaps a shallow argument, video > can > > > all > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > > easily be edited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And, it is well documented that the US justice system > has > > > > > executed > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > continues to execute many who were/are innocent of the > > > crime > > > > > > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 11:23 pm, Chuck Bowling < > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the death penalty should never be used > in > > > cases > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > evidence is circumstantial. However, in cases where > there > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > dispute > > > > > > > > > > > (say > > > > > > > > > > > > a video of a guy committing a horrendous crime), I > think > > > it > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > > > > > > used. > > > > > > > > > > > > This person is a threat to society and his impact on > the > > > > > > > resources of > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > society should be minimalized. In other words he > should > > > be > > > > > put to > > > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > soon and as economically as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That said, I'm absolutely against inhumane treatment. > > > While > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > > be a monster there is no real justification in > tormenting > > > him > > > > > in > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > final > > > > > > > > > > > > hours or minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 11:15 PM, ornamentalmind < > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the death penalty isn’t a > > > punishment…although, > > > > > it > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > often torture and ‘cruel and unusual’. It also is > not > > > > > > > reversible. > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > also is misapplied and used all too often against > those > > > who > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > innocent of the crime involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All of the practical issues aside, to me, if > killing is > > > > > “wrong” > > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow, so is killing a killer. Period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 10:12 am, Chuck Bowling < > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the word 'deserving' used in this context > is > > > > > kinda > > > > > > > silly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's start with a simple example. A guy kills > > > somebody > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > brutal > > > > > > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is already suicidal and wants to die does he > > > 'deserve' > > > > > to > > > > > > > die? > > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > implies that he deserves to be rewarded for a > brutal > > > > > murder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't claim to know Bin Laden's mindset at the > time > > > of > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the sake of argument let's say that his one true > goal > > > is > > > > > to > > > > > > > be a > > > > > > > > > > > martyr > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allah. Does he deserve martyerdom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of death as a punishment is silly. > > > When > > > > > > > someone is > > > > > > > > > > > dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no longer feel punished. IMO, they feel > absolutely > > > > > nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that doesn't mean that I'm against putting > > > people to > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > crimes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > against society. I just look at the reasoning > > > > > differently. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > > > > > penalty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't a punishment. It's simply removing a tumor > that > > > is > > > > > > > > > detrimental > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -
