Spot on Gabby. There is the possibility of a real history. For the time being we can only invent future memories to reveal it.
On May 18, 7:25 pm, allan deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > Hear! Hear! > Allan > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 5:12 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > That's the logical sense of the point's business: to maintain my moral > > superiority. History books are full of this being a good motif for killing > > each other. > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:23 PM, [email protected] < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > >> Why should we not? > > >> Should we instead make our selfs guilty of the same behaviour that > >> seems universal reprehensabile? Should we then sink to that level > >> ourselves? Two wrongs don't make a right and all that. > > >> The point is to maintian that moral superiority. If a man steals from > >> me, can I then steal from him? Wouldn't that make me also a theif? > > >> revenge killings as we know only lead to further revenge killings. We > >> have here in the UK a growing youth gang problem, with kids killing > >> other kids for slights imagined or otherwise, and then in turn the > >> other gang of kids killing members of the ther other gang. Is that > >> right, it is the correct behaviour? > > >> I doubt anybody in their right mind would say yes, so then as adults > >> we should be leading by example, shouldn't we? > > >> Killing a killer makes no logical sense. > > >> On May 17, 10:21 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > IMO a person sitting on death row is there because he had no concern for > >> the > >> > victims rights. Why should he be afforded more rights than the person he > >> > killed? > > >> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:03 AM, [email protected] < > > >> > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > Hey Chuck, > > >> > > That is an interesting question and I will get to it, first though you > >> > > showed me yours and so it is only fair that I show you mine. > > >> > > I too am against the death penalty. With me though it is a liberal > >> > > application of the golden rule that has swayed me to my position. > > >> > > I belive that we each have the right to make choices for ourselves, I > >> > > belive then also that to remove the choice of choice from a person is > >> > > a great sin. So death impossed upon you by another takes not only the > >> > > choice to live from you, but also all future choices. > > >> > > I belive it is right to imprison the probable guilty, as I belive it > >> > > is right for the mother of a starving child to steal to feed that > >> > > child, if that is the only choice left to her. Heh a cop out? well > >> > > I'll let you answer that one. > > >> > > On May 12, 6:11 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > I am against the death penalty. > > >> > > > Not because I think it is wrong to kill another human. But because I > >> feel > >> > > > that the legal system has too many flaws to make reliable judgments > >> on a > >> > > > persons life. > > >> > > > But then, this is a rich society that can afford to support it's > >> > > criminals. > >> > > > In a third world country where villages are barely scraping by as it > >> is I > >> > > > think the criteria for deciding death might be different. Do you > >> support > >> > > the > >> > > > incarceration of someone who is probably guilty or save a starving > >> child? > > >> > > > BTW, that wasn't an implication to save the starving child by > >> feeding him > >> > > a > >> > > > criminal. Maybe feed the criminal to a goat who would in turn supply > >> milk > >> > > > for the child. :) > > >> > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:25 AM, [email protected] < > > >> > > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > I don't know that I agree with the second part. It seems to me > >> that > >> > > > > one moral rule that mostly all societys have is about killing and > >> how > >> > > > > imorral it is. > > >> > > > > However non of that answers my question on your stance on the > >> death > >> > > > > penalty Chuck? > > >> > > > > On May 12, 2:15 pm, Chuck Bowling < > >> [email protected]> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > To the individual life seems important. But, as I said in > >> another > >> > > post, > >> > > > > life > >> > > > > > to society in general seems to have little value. Why would the > >> life > >> > > of a > >> > > > > > convict who commits a horrendous crime have any more value than > >> > > soldiers > >> > > > > > sent off to fight in a war? > > >> > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:43 AM, [email protected] < > > >> > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > > Indeed it is, you'll get no argument otherwise from me on that > >> > > score. > >> > > > > > > How can it not be? Who else can say that you are happy or > >> fulfield > >> > > > > > > but yourself? > > >> > > > > > > What though of your stance on the dealth penalty and why > >> Chuck? > > >> > > > > > > On May 12, 1:39 pm, Chuck Bowling < > >> [email protected] > > >> > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > One could argue that a mentally handicapped individual is > >> happy > >> > > and > >> > > > > > > > fulfilled. To be honest, I don't even know what that means. > >> Does > >> > > > > > > fulfillment > >> > > > > > > > imply that one has reached some significant milestone in > >> life? > > >> > > > > > > > Whatever the meaning, personal fulfillment only > >> characterizes the > >> > > > > value > >> > > > > > > of > >> > > > > > > > one's own life. Not the lives of others. It is a subjective > >> value > >> > > > > > > judgment > >> > > > > > > > made by the individual and not by society. > > >> > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:06 AM, > >> [email protected] < > > >> > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > Haha a brilliant answer Chuck, yes for some I guess it > >> does all > >> > > > > depend > >> > > > > > > > > on how much we vaule life. > > >> > > > > > > > > Myself, I'm sorta with you, we are here for an > >> insicnificant > >> > > amount > >> > > > > of > >> > > > > > > > > time, life can seem futile, that though is if we appraoch > >> the > >> > > > > question > >> > > > > > > > > in a nihlistic way. Others would argue that life is what > >> you > >> > > make > >> > > > > it, > >> > > > > > > > > and what you make of your short time here is more > >> important > >> > > than > >> > > > > simpy > >> > > > > > > > > beeing alive. I mean of course a life spent in agony and > >> > > > > unhappiness > >> > > > > > > > > is not a life at all, but one spent happy and fullfiled > >> would > >> > > be, > >> > > > > well > >> > > > > > > > > happy and fullfiled. > > >> > > > > > > > > What do you think though Chuck? > > >> > > > > > > > > On May 12, 12:29 pm, Chuck Bowling < > >> > > > > [email protected]> > >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > Humans are on this earth for a tiny sliver of time. The > >> > > impact we > >> > > > > > > have on > >> > > > > > > > > > the universe as individuals is minute. To believe that > >> we are > >> > > > > somehow > >> > > > > > > > > more > >> > > > > > > > > > than that is pure hubris on our parts. > > >> > > > > > > > > > The inevitability of death makes life an exercise in > >> > > futility. We > >> > > > > > > have > >> > > > > > > > > but > >> > > > > > > > > > one purpose which is to spawn. Once that is finished we > >> sit > >> > > > > around > >> > > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > twiddle our thumbs until death. > > >> > > > > > > > > > That said, I guess being for or against the death > >> penalty > >> > > depends > >> > > > > on > >> > > > > > > how > >> > > > > > > > > you > >> > > > > > > > > > value life. IMO, we are all just meat. If politicians > >> can > >> > > send > >> > > > > > > teenagers > >> > > > > > > > > off > >> > > > > > > > > > to fight for oil and hundreds of children die of > >> starvation > >> > > in > >> > > > > third > >> > > > > > > > > world > >> > > > > > > > > > countries while the obesity epidemic in America grows > >> without > >> > > > > bounds > >> > > > > > > then > >> > > > > > > > > > life must not be very valuable. > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:59 AM, > >> > > [email protected] < > > >> > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hey Chuck, > > >> > > > > > > > > > > It's an interesting thought experiment to consider why > >> we > >> > > are > >> > > > > for > >> > > > > > > or > >> > > > > > > > > > > agianst the death penalty. I'll go right ahead and > >> > > proclaim > >> > > > > that I > >> > > > > > > am > >> > > > > > > > > > > against it in all case. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps not for the reasons you might think, and I'll > >> get > >> > > to > >> > > > > them > >> > > > > > > > > > > eventualy but I would first like to hear others > >> thoughts. > >> > > Of > >> > > > > > > course I > >> > > > > > > > > > > belive OM (and maybe Amanda?) probably knows my > >> reasoning, > >> > > he > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > > I, > >> > > > > > > > > > > as he keeps telling me, have bashed about a lot of our > >> > > ideas > >> > > > > over > >> > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > years. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 11:43 am, Chuck Bowling < > >> > > > > > > [email protected]> > >> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. I do 3d illustration/animation and video > >> > > edits. > >> > > > > It > >> > > > > > > takes > >> > > > > > > > > more > >> > > > > > > > > > > > than just a little cut & paste to produce a > >> convincing > >> > > fake. > >> > > > > I'm > >> > > > > > > not > >> > > > > > > > > > > saying > >> > > > > > > > > > > > that it can't be done. I'm sure that there are > >> government > >> > > > > > > agencies > >> > > > > > > > > with > >> > > > > > > > > > > lots > >> > > > > > > > > > > > of money to throw around who could do it but I'd be > >> > > pretty > >> > > > > > > skeptical > >> > > > > > > > > if > >> > > > > > > > > > > > someone's defense rested on conspiracies by men in > >> black. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > As to the justice system, I never said that it was > >> > > perfect. > >> > > > > In > >> > > > > > > fact, > >> > > > > > > > > I > >> > > > > > > > > > > think > >> > > > > > > > > > > > it is very flawed. Often cases are prosecuted based > >> not > >> > > on > >> > > > > guilt > >> > > > > > > or > >> > > > > > > > > > > > innocence > > ... > > read more »
