Hey Chuck, That is an interesting question and I will get to it, first though you showed me yours and so it is only fair that I show you mine.
I too am against the death penalty. With me though it is a liberal application of the golden rule that has swayed me to my position. I belive that we each have the right to make choices for ourselves, I belive then also that to remove the choice of choice from a person is a great sin. So death impossed upon you by another takes not only the choice to live from you, but also all future choices. I belive it is right to imprison the probable guilty, as I belive it is right for the mother of a starving child to steal to feed that child, if that is the only choice left to her. Heh a cop out? well I'll let you answer that one. On May 12, 6:11 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> wrote: > I am against the death penalty. > > Not because I think it is wrong to kill another human. But because I feel > that the legal system has too many flaws to make reliable judgments on a > persons life. > > But then, this is a rich society that can afford to support it's criminals. > In a third world country where villages are barely scraping by as it is I > think the criteria for deciding death might be different. Do you support the > incarceration of someone who is probably guilty or save a starving child? > > BTW, that wasn't an implication to save the starving child by feeding him a > criminal. Maybe feed the criminal to a goat who would in turn supply milk > for the child. :) > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:25 AM, [email protected] < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > I don't know that I agree with the second part. It seems to me that > > one moral rule that mostly all societys have is about killing and how > > imorral it is. > > > However non of that answers my question on your stance on the death > > penalty Chuck? > > > On May 12, 2:15 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > To the individual life seems important. But, as I said in another post, > > life > > > to society in general seems to have little value. Why would the life of a > > > convict who commits a horrendous crime have any more value than soldiers > > > sent off to fight in a war? > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:43 AM, [email protected] < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Indeed it is, you'll get no argument otherwise from me on that score. > > > > How can it not be? Who else can say that you are happy or fulfield > > > > but yourself? > > > > > What though of your stance on the dealth penalty and why Chuck? > > > > > On May 12, 1:39 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > One could argue that a mentally handicapped individual is happy and > > > > > fulfilled. To be honest, I don't even know what that means. Does > > > > fulfillment > > > > > imply that one has reached some significant milestone in life? > > > > > > Whatever the meaning, personal fulfillment only characterizes the > > value > > > > of > > > > > one's own life. Not the lives of others. It is a subjective value > > > > judgment > > > > > made by the individual and not by society. > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:06 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Haha a brilliant answer Chuck, yes for some I guess it does all > > depend > > > > > > on how much we vaule life. > > > > > > > Myself, I'm sorta with you, we are here for an insicnificant amount > > of > > > > > > time, life can seem futile, that though is if we appraoch the > > question > > > > > > in a nihlistic way. Others would argue that life is what you make > > it, > > > > > > and what you make of your short time here is more important than > > simpy > > > > > > beeing alive. I mean of course a life spent in agony and > > unhappiness > > > > > > is not a life at all, but one spent happy and fullfiled would be, > > well > > > > > > happy and fullfiled. > > > > > > > What do you think though Chuck? > > > > > > > On May 12, 12:29 pm, Chuck Bowling < > > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Humans are on this earth for a tiny sliver of time. The impact we > > > > have on > > > > > > > the universe as individuals is minute. To believe that we are > > somehow > > > > > > more > > > > > > > than that is pure hubris on our parts. > > > > > > > > The inevitability of death makes life an exercise in futility. We > > > > have > > > > > > but > > > > > > > one purpose which is to spawn. Once that is finished we sit > > around > > > > and > > > > > > > twiddle our thumbs until death. > > > > > > > > That said, I guess being for or against the death penalty depends > > on > > > > how > > > > > > you > > > > > > > value life. IMO, we are all just meat. If politicians can send > > > > teenagers > > > > > > off > > > > > > > to fight for oil and hundreds of children die of starvation in > > third > > > > > > world > > > > > > > countries while the obesity epidemic in America grows without > > bounds > > > > then > > > > > > > life must not be very valuable. > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:59 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Chuck, > > > > > > > > > It's an interesting thought experiment to consider why we are > > for > > > > or > > > > > > > > agianst the death penalty. I'll go right ahead and proclaim > > that I > > > > am > > > > > > > > against it in all case. > > > > > > > > > Perhaps not for the reasons you might think, and I'll get to > > them > > > > > > > > eventualy but I would first like to hear others thoughts. Of > > > > course I > > > > > > > > belive OM (and maybe Amanda?) probably knows my reasoning, he > > and > > > > I, > > > > > > > > as he keeps telling me, have bashed about a lot of our ideas > > over > > > > the > > > > > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 11:43 am, Chuck Bowling < > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Not really. I do 3d illustration/animation and video edits. > > It > > > > takes > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > than just a little cut & paste to produce a convincing fake. > > I'm > > > > not > > > > > > > > saying > > > > > > > > > that it can't be done. I'm sure that there are government > > > > agencies > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > lots > > > > > > > > > of money to throw around who could do it but I'd be pretty > > > > skeptical > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > someone's defense rested on conspiracies by men in black. > > > > > > > > > > As to the justice system, I never said that it was perfect. > > In > > > > fact, > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > it is very flawed. Often cases are prosecuted based not on > > guilt > > > > or > > > > > > > > > innocence but on political agendas. > > > > > > > > > > But then as I said before, IMO defendants should never be put > > on > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > row > > > > > > > > > unless the evidence is incontrovertible. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 3:52 AM, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and as what is perhaps a shallow argument, video can > > all > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > easily be edited. > > > > > > > > > > > And, it is well documented that the US justice system has > > > > executed > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > continues to execute many who were/are innocent of the > > crime > > > > > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 11:23 pm, Chuck Bowling < > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the death penalty should never be used in > > cases > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > evidence is circumstantial. However, in cases where there > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > dispute > > > > > > > > > > (say > > > > > > > > > > > a video of a guy committing a horrendous crime), I think > > it > > > > > > should be > > > > > > > > > > used. > > > > > > > > > > > This person is a threat to society and his impact on the > > > > > > resources of > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > society should be minimalized. In other words he should > > be > > > > put to > > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > soon and as economically as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > That said, I'm absolutely against inhumane treatment. > > While > > > > that > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > be a monster there is no real justification in tormenting > > him > > > > in > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > final > > > > > > > > > > > hours or minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 11:15 PM, ornamentalmind < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the death penalty isn’t a > > punishment…although, > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > often torture and ‘cruel and unusual’. It also is not > > > > > > reversible. > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > also is misapplied and used all too often against those > > who > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > innocent of the crime involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > All of the practical issues aside, to me, if killing is > > > > “wrong” > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow, so is killing a killer. Period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 10:12 am, Chuck Bowling < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the word 'deserving' used in this context is > > > > kinda > > > > > > silly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's start with a simple example. A guy kills > > somebody > > > > in a > > > > > > > > brutal > > > > > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is already suicidal and wants to die does he > > 'deserve' > > > > to > > > > > > die? > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > implies that he deserves to be rewarded for a brutal > > > > murder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't claim to know Bin Laden's mindset at the time > > of > > > > his > > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > the sake of argument let's say that his one true goal > > is > > > > to > > > > > > be a > > > > > > > > > > martyr > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allah. Does he deserve martyerdom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole idea of death as a punishment is silly. > > When > > > > > > someone is > > > > > > > > > > dead > > > > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > > > no longer feel punished. IMO, they feel absolutely > > > > nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that doesn't mean that I'm against putting > > people to > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > crimes > > > > > > > > > > > > > against society. I just look at the reasoning > > > > differently. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > > > > penalty > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't a punishment. It's simply removing a tumor that > > is > > > > > > > > detrimental > > > > > > > > > > to > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
