That's the logical sense of the point's business: to maintain my moral superiority. History books are full of this being a good motif for killing each other.
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:23 PM, [email protected] < [email protected]> wrote: > Why should we not? > > Should we instead make our selfs guilty of the same behaviour that > seems universal reprehensabile? Should we then sink to that level > ourselves? Two wrongs don't make a right and all that. > > The point is to maintian that moral superiority. If a man steals from > me, can I then steal from him? Wouldn't that make me also a theif? > > revenge killings as we know only lead to further revenge killings. We > have here in the UK a growing youth gang problem, with kids killing > other kids for slights imagined or otherwise, and then in turn the > other gang of kids killing members of the ther other gang. Is that > right, it is the correct behaviour? > > I doubt anybody in their right mind would say yes, so then as adults > we should be leading by example, shouldn't we? > > Killing a killer makes no logical sense. > > On May 17, 10:21 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > wrote: > > IMO a person sitting on death row is there because he had no concern for > the > > victims rights. Why should he be afforded more rights than the person he > > killed? > > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:03 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Hey Chuck, > > > > > That is an interesting question and I will get to it, first though you > > > showed me yours and so it is only fair that I show you mine. > > > > > I too am against the death penalty. With me though it is a liberal > > > application of the golden rule that has swayed me to my position. > > > > > I belive that we each have the right to make choices for ourselves, I > > > belive then also that to remove the choice of choice from a person is > > > a great sin. So death impossed upon you by another takes not only the > > > choice to live from you, but also all future choices. > > > > > I belive it is right to imprison the probable guilty, as I belive it > > > is right for the mother of a starving child to steal to feed that > > > child, if that is the only choice left to her. Heh a cop out? well > > > I'll let you answer that one. > > > > > On May 12, 6:11 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > I am against the death penalty. > > > > > > Not because I think it is wrong to kill another human. But because I > feel > > > > that the legal system has too many flaws to make reliable judgments > on a > > > > persons life. > > > > > > But then, this is a rich society that can afford to support it's > > > criminals. > > > > In a third world country where villages are barely scraping by as it > is I > > > > think the criteria for deciding death might be different. Do you > support > > > the > > > > incarceration of someone who is probably guilty or save a starving > child? > > > > > > BTW, that wasn't an implication to save the starving child by feeding > him > > > a > > > > criminal. Maybe feed the criminal to a goat who would in turn supply > milk > > > > for the child. :) > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:25 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I don't know that I agree with the second part. It seems to me > that > > > > > one moral rule that mostly all societys have is about killing and > how > > > > > imorral it is. > > > > > > > However non of that answers my question on your stance on the death > > > > > penalty Chuck? > > > > > > > On May 12, 2:15 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > To the individual life seems important. But, as I said in another > > > post, > > > > > life > > > > > > to society in general seems to have little value. Why would the > life > > > of a > > > > > > convict who commits a horrendous crime have any more value than > > > soldiers > > > > > > sent off to fight in a war? > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:43 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Indeed it is, you'll get no argument otherwise from me on that > > > score. > > > > > > > How can it not be? Who else can say that you are happy or > fulfield > > > > > > > but yourself? > > > > > > > > > What though of your stance on the dealth penalty and why Chuck? > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 1:39 pm, Chuck Bowling < > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > One could argue that a mentally handicapped individual is > happy > > > and > > > > > > > > fulfilled. To be honest, I don't even know what that means. > Does > > > > > > > fulfillment > > > > > > > > imply that one has reached some significant milestone in > life? > > > > > > > > > > Whatever the meaning, personal fulfillment only characterizes > the > > > > > value > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > one's own life. Not the lives of others. It is a subjective > value > > > > > > > judgment > > > > > > > > made by the individual and not by society. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:06 AM, > [email protected] < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Haha a brilliant answer Chuck, yes for some I guess it does > all > > > > > depend > > > > > > > > > on how much we vaule life. > > > > > > > > > > > Myself, I'm sorta with you, we are here for an > insicnificant > > > amount > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > time, life can seem futile, that though is if we appraoch > the > > > > > question > > > > > > > > > in a nihlistic way. Others would argue that life is what > you > > > make > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > > and what you make of your short time here is more important > > > than > > > > > simpy > > > > > > > > > beeing alive. I mean of course a life spent in agony and > > > > > unhappiness > > > > > > > > > is not a life at all, but one spent happy and fullfiled > would > > > be, > > > > > well > > > > > > > > > happy and fullfiled. > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think though Chuck? > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 12:29 pm, Chuck Bowling < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Humans are on this earth for a tiny sliver of time. The > > > impact we > > > > > > > have on > > > > > > > > > > the universe as individuals is minute. To believe that we > are > > > > > somehow > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > than that is pure hubris on our parts. > > > > > > > > > > > > The inevitability of death makes life an exercise in > > > futility. We > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > one purpose which is to spawn. Once that is finished we > sit > > > > > around > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > twiddle our thumbs until death. > > > > > > > > > > > > That said, I guess being for or against the death penalty > > > depends > > > > > on > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > value life. IMO, we are all just meat. If politicians can > > > send > > > > > > > teenagers > > > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > > > to fight for oil and hundreds of children die of > starvation > > > in > > > > > third > > > > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > > > countries while the obesity epidemic in America grows > without > > > > > bounds > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > life must not be very valuable. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:59 AM, > > > [email protected] < > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Chuck, > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's an interesting thought experiment to consider why > we > > > are > > > > > for > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > agianst the death penalty. I'll go right ahead and > > > proclaim > > > > > that I > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > against it in all case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps not for the reasons you might think, and I'll > get > > > to > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > > > eventualy but I would first like to hear others > thoughts. > > > Of > > > > > > > course I > > > > > > > > > > > belive OM (and maybe Amanda?) probably knows my > reasoning, > > > he > > > > > and > > > > > > > I, > > > > > > > > > > > as he keeps telling me, have bashed about a lot of our > > > ideas > > > > > over > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 11:43 am, Chuck Bowling < > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. I do 3d illustration/animation and video > > > edits. > > > > > It > > > > > > > takes > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > than just a little cut & paste to produce a > convincing > > > fake. > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > saying > > > > > > > > > > > > that it can't be done. I'm sure that there are > government > > > > > > > agencies > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > lots > > > > > > > > > > > > of money to throw around who could do it but I'd be > > > pretty > > > > > > > skeptical > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > someone's defense rested on conspiracies by men in > black. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As to the justice system, I never said that it was > > > perfect. > > > > > In > > > > > > > fact, > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > it is very flawed. Often cases are prosecuted based > not > > > on > > > > > guilt > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > innocence but on political agendas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But then as I said before, IMO defendants should > never be > > > put > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > > > row > > > > > > > > > > > > unless the evidence is incontrovertible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 3:52 AM, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and as what is perhaps a shallow argument, > video > > > can > > > > > all > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > > > > easily be edited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And, it is well documented that the US justice > system > > > has > > > > > > > executed > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > continues to execute many who were/are innocent of > the > > > > > crime > > > > > > > > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 11:23 pm, Chuck Bowling < > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the death penalty should never be > used > > > in > > > > > cases > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evidence is circumstantial. However, in cases > where > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > dispute > > > > > > > > > > > > > (say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a video of a guy committing a horrendous crime), > I > > > think > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > > > > > > > > used. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This person is a threat to society and his impact > on > > > the > > > > > > > > > resources of > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > society should be minimalized. In other words he > > > should > > > > > be > > > > > > > put to > > > > > > > > > > > death > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > soon and as economically as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That said, I'm absolutely against inhumane > treatment. > > > > > While > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be a monster there is no real justification in > > > tormenting > > > > > him > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > final > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hours or minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 11:15 PM, ornamentalmind > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the death penalty isn’t a > > > > > punishment…although, > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > often torture and ‘cruel and unusual’. It also > is > > > not > > > > > > > > > reversible. > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - >
