Here's a fact to really worry us. A third of US families are one paycheck from not being able to pay their rent/mortgage - http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/one-third-of-americans-one-paycheck-away-from-homelessness.html
This, very sadly is just how big the problem is and shows it's real. On Oct 6, 3:18 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Pruning ain't the metaphor I'd choose Chris. Dexia Bank has just gone > belly-up - it was 'worth' more than Belgium's GDP. The 'money' in the > banking scam is at factors of ten in comparison with the world of real > work. My view is that it's in the way of capitalism and democracy. > The informed guess is they've been lending to crooks on a scale vastly > bigger than the barrel-loads of dollars gone in Iraq and Afghanistan > without securing any 'mineral rights'. The kleft stick is that they > can only make money through the same old scams, so whatever we put > back in (and I mean we) just does it all over again. In an > oversimplified way, much of the debt is like you owing me $2 million, > Don owing 'Francois' $5 million, me owing Molly (etc.) in an equation > in which, if we cancelled out we're all solvent and I owe Orn a beer > he won'r drink. What goes in the cancelling is the banks - the debts > are so networked it's almost like the $2 million you owe me is > balanced by $1.99 million I owe to people who owe you. I've been > teaching the EU figures if anyone is interested (they just tell this > story between EU countries). > > We've finally seen some reporting here. A Wall Street guy came on and > said he was amazed more people weren't protesting as he thought true > unemployment was at 15% - which is what I reckon here. The real issue > to me is jobs and wages. A key figure for me is that the bottom 50% > back in 1980 had 14% of liquid assets (cash more or less) and that's > down to 1% now. Wages have fallen. The debt problem starts around > 1965 and it's similar in form to similar ones around gold rushes in > history. Most people I've seen on television or met in Manchester > don't know much of the economics but are sick of the lack of > opportunity. > > I was left a house when my cousin died and had to drop the price by a > fifth to sell. There's no decent unskilled or engineering work around > here and jobs are being lost at some rate. Just up the road we have > 64 years of UK energy supply as shale gas about to be exploited. I > worked on the survey 25 years back. You'd think we'd have a plan > around this but there isn't one. > > Political blather is just about getting the economy moving, our people > working. It's all dross. Interestingly, our Republicans couldn't > even fill the seats for the Prime Minister's speech. He's not a half- > wit like Palin but he's claiming his government has dealt with the > banks - yet two of the one's we bailed out are still making the kinds > of losses they were before 2008. One of them,HBOS, was running a > criminal scam that closed many small companies and is not cooperating > with the limited police enquiries. > > I don't think most people know how bad it all is yet. The collapse of > Soc. Gen. and Bank of America should do it - B o A could even end up > Chinese. There are underlying questions on how we get fed if it all > collapses - after all, we're still growing the food. > > On Oct 5, 9:43 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Great time to live,, revolution is always exciting. Maybe if the bankers > > and stock market wake up. > > > Do corporations still agree obey the laws of the state and the United > > state.. and if they don't do they lose their corporate skirt > > Allan > > On Oct 5, 2011 7:37 PM, "Chris Jenkins" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Citizens United was one of the worst rulings in the entire history of the > > > Supreme Court. > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Comm... > > > > Restricting unions while empowering corporations in political speech is > > > one > > > of the root problems that Occupy hopes to address. > > > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, ornamentalmind <[email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > >> It looks like the unions are entering into the fray. No doubt this > > >> will accelerate the attacks on them… such as the proposals to greatly > > >> limit and/or not allow political contributions. Perhaps if they > > >> incorporated…. > > > >>http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/5/as_unions_students_join_occupy_... > > > >> On Oct 5, 8:02 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > And thus the need for education. CDO Swaps and other bits of banking > > >> > nastiness that prune money from the system while contributing nothing > > >> > to > > >> it > > >> > are part of the problem. > > > >> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:35 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > We have Occupy here too - a few tent cities so far - people also > > >> > > making the point they ain't left-wing loonies. I went to the > > >> > > Manchester one yesterday to ask a few people 'why'? I'm not sure > > >> > > heard much that was accurate. Might have a look at Greece nearer > > >> > > Xmas. Most peopleI met yesterday didn't know what collateral- > > >> > > derivative fractional banking was. > > > >> > > On Oct 4, 2:40 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > Well then, reckon we should all grab shovels, yes? > > >> > > > On Oct 4, 2011 9:03 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > > I guess my picture of normal, Chris, would be of an ostrich with > > >> its > > >> > > > > head in the sand - these being the people not doing occupation. > > > >> > > > > On Oct 4, 8:41 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > >> It is good to see you again Chris and Don.. > > > >> > > > >> I was thinking (I know a rare event) last night only to have the > > >> topic > > >> > > > >> return this morning.. > > > >> > > > >> After watching all the demonstrations some thing emerged that > > >> does not > > >> > > > make > > >> > > > >> sense to me nor do I understand. maybe some one can straighten > > >> > > > >> me > > >> > > out.. > > > >> > > > >> He goes: If I invest my money in a company say Sky Cat (I like > > >> the > > >> > > idea) > > >> > > > I > > >> > > > >> am hoping the company will go on to produce me a profit by > > >> > > manufacturing > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > >> air type craft. They have my money, I have a share of their > > >> company > > >> > > > >> because they control my money.. > > > >> > > > >> Now if I give a "Bank" control of my money they do not in return > > >> give > > >> > > me > > >> > > > a > > >> > > > >> share of their stock like a normal company does.. they invest > > >> both > > >> > > their > > >> > > > >> money and my money and I have no problem with that,, what I > > >> > > > >> have > > >> a > > >> > > > problem > > >> > > > >> with is the sharing of the profits.. if there is a profit their > > >> share > > >> > > of > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > >> money makes more money than mine,, but if they lose money It > > >> is my > > >> > > > money > > >> > > > >> that is lost not theirs.. > > > >> > > > >> Even if I put money in a simple savings account,, it is > > >> investing in > > >> > > the > > >> > > > >> bank.. and what I am seeing is a group if people who think the > > >> laws > > >> > > of > > >> > > > >> economics and moral responsibility. If they lose money,, because > > >> they > > >> > > are > > >> > > > >> the ones in control morally they should be taking the greater > > >> share of > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > >> lose.. and that includes the stock market.. > > >> > > > >> Allan > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Chris Jenkins < > > >> > > [email protected] > > >> > > > >wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > Leaving moderation behind has made it feel like a whole new > > >> list for > > >> > > > me. :D > > > >> > > > >> > I too am worried about undue influence coopting the cause, but > > >> I > > >> > > think > > >> > > > >> > that's an inevitability of any populist movement. Even the > > >> Egyptians > > >> > > > are > > >> > > > >> > warily eyeing their "liberated" government. I just hope some > > >> good is > > >> > > > >> > accomplished along the way. > > >> > > > >> > On Oct 3, 2011 7:15 PM, "Don Johnson" <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > I'm very glad to see your august presence back amongst these > > >> > > humble > > >> > > > >> > boards > > >> > > > >> > > Chris. > > > >> > > > >> > > The self portraits of 99%s with notes describing themselves > > >> > > affected > > >> > > > me > > >> > > > >> > > somewhat. Some are easy to dismiss as whiny but many are > > >> obviously > > >> > > > >> > feeling > > >> > > > >> > > the same pain I see in family and friends around me. It > > >> literally > > >> > > > puts a > > >> > > > >> > > face, many faces actually, on our problems. I'm very glad > > >> folks > > >> > > like > > >> > > > you > > >> > > > >> > are > > >> > > > >> > > out there recording these times. I mean that because I see > > >> > > > >> > > in > > >> you > > >> > > > someone > > >> > > > >> > > without a particular agenda other then improvement. I have > > >> never > > >> > > seen > > >> > > > you > > >> > > > >> > as > > >> > > > >> > > someone that ignores or tries to cover up obvious > > >> discrepancies in > > >> > > > what > > >> > > > >> > > politicians say and what they do. I find your support of Ron > > >> Paul > > >> > > > >> > > refreshing. While I disagree with many of his policies the > > >> thing I > > >> > > > most > > >> > > > >> > > admire about him is his consistency. There are few things > > >> > > > >> > > our > > >> > > > President > > >> > > > >> > has > > >> > > > >> > > done I approve of but killing terrorists is at the top of > > >> > > > >> > > the > > >> > > list. > > >> > > > Ron > > >> > > > >> > is > > >> > > > >> > > wrong on this. > > > >> > > > >> > > Now, with the ass kissing portion of my post out of the way, > > >> let's > > >> > > > get to > > >> > > > >> > > the Occupy(pickyourplace) kerfuffle. I made the observation > > >> in a > > >> > > post > > >> > > > on > > >> > > > >> > G+ > > >> > > > >> > > that this may be one of those times when you see Tea > > >> > > > >> > > Partiers > > >> > > > marching > > >> > > > >> > next > > >> > > > >> > > to Code Pinkers. Nobody likes corp. welfare and high > > >> unemployment > > >> > > > except > > >> > > > >> > for > > >> > > > >> > > the lobbyists and politicians that engineer it. Even > > ... > > read more »
