There's a take on Occupy Wall Street at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/matt-stoller-the-anti-politics-of-occupywallstreet.html - that sounds like Allan - a bit bullshitty (sorry Al - not you) Chris but an interesting take.
I can't stand any standard politics now. It's madness. On Oct 6, 8:36 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > I think there is where the problem lies,, several decades ago the > revolution was bassed off ideology differences (the Little Red Book) this > really was not a valid reason.. > > today I see > http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/matt-stoller-the-anti-politics-of-occupywallstreet.htmla > totally different world,, especially in the US also to a > lesser extent Europe.. in the US there are other problems there are > existing undergrounds outside of police intelligence,, there are massive > amounts of weapons out of site and out of mind and other than the owner no > one knows about them.. Even I still have guns and I no longer live there.. > > The US is extremely Large,, there is also a large community of motor homes > which have the ability move and potentially lower the cost of living.. > and organize.. the police are not unsympathetic either as they often times > in the same or similar situation.. > > I do believe co-op-s will become more plentiful, underground work will > become more prevalent.. it will change,, I think the start is in > eliminating the political corruption that is so embedded.. > sigh > Allan > > I hate change .. but greed is so wide spread.. a tremendous lose > of spirituality ,, but fundamentalism may have some perks in the end,, > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Chris Jenkins > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > I see BoA as an infinitely powerful entity, and can't imagine the behemoth > > falling. > > On Oct 5, 2011 10:18 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Pruning ain't the metaphor I'd choose Chris. Dexia Bank has just gone > > > belly-up - it was 'worth' more than Belgium's GDP. The 'money' in the > > > banking scam is at factors of ten in comparison with the world of real > > > work. My view is that it's in the way of capitalism and democracy. > > > The informed guess is they've been lending to crooks on a scale vastly > > > bigger than the barrel-loads of dollars gone in Iraq and Afghanistan > > > without securing any 'mineral rights'. The kleft stick is that they > > > can only make money through the same old scams, so whatever we put > > > back in (and I mean we) just does it all over again. In an > > > oversimplified way, much of the debt is like you owing me $2 million, > > > Don owing 'Francois' $5 million, me owing Molly (etc.) in an equation > > > in which, if we cancelled out we're all solvent and I owe Orn a beer > > > he won'r drink. What goes in the cancelling is the banks - the debts > > > are so networked it's almost like the $2 million you owe me is > > > balanced by $1.99 million I owe to people who owe you. I've been > > > teaching the EU figures if anyone is interested (they just tell this > > > story between EU countries). > > > > We've finally seen some reporting here. A Wall Street guy came on and > > > said he was amazed more people weren't protesting as he thought true > > > unemployment was at 15% - which is what I reckon here. The real issue > > > to me is jobs and wages. A key figure for me is that the bottom 50% > > > back in 1980 had 14% of liquid assets (cash more or less) and that's > > > down to 1% now. Wages have fallen. The debt problem starts around > > > 1965 and it's similar in form to similar ones around gold rushes in > > > history. Most people I've seen on television or met in Manchester > > > don't know much of the economics but are sick of the lack of > > > opportunity. > > > > I was left a house when my cousin died and had to drop the price by a > > > fifth to sell. There's no decent unskilled or engineering work around > > > here and jobs are being lost at some rate. Just up the road we have > > > 64 years of UK energy supply as shale gas about to be exploited. I > > > worked on the survey 25 years back. You'd think we'd have a plan > > > around this but there isn't one. > > > > Political blather is just about getting the economy moving, our people > > > working. It's all dross. Interestingly, our Republicans couldn't > > > even fill the seats for the Prime Minister's speech. He's not a half- > > > wit like Palin but he's claiming his government has dealt with the > > > banks - yet two of the one's we bailed out are still making the kinds > > > of losses they were before 2008. One of them,HBOS, was running a > > > criminal scam that closed many small companies and is not cooperating > > > with the limited police enquiries. > > > > I don't think most people know how bad it all is yet. The collapse of > > > Soc. Gen. and Bank of America should do it - B o A could even end up > > > Chinese. There are underlying questions on how we get fed if it all > > > collapses - after all, we're still growing the food. > > > > On Oct 5, 9:43 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Great time to live,, revolution is always exciting. Maybe if the > > bankers > > >> and stock market wake up. > > > >> Do corporations still agree obey the laws of the state and the United > > >> state.. and if they don't do they lose their corporate skirt > > >> Allan > > >> On Oct 5, 2011 7:37 PM, "Chris Jenkins" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> > Citizens United was one of the worst rulings in the entire history of > > the > > >> > Supreme Court. > > > >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Comm. > > .. > > > >> > Restricting unions while empowering corporations in political speech > > is one > > >> > of the root problems that Occupy hopes to address. > > > >> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, ornamentalmind < > > [email protected] > > >> > > wrote: > > > >> >> It looks like the unions are entering into the fray. No doubt this > > >> >> will accelerate the attacks on them… such as the proposals to greatly > > >> >> limit and/or not allow political contributions. Perhaps if they > > >> >> incorporated…. > > >http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/5/as_unions_students_join_occupy_... > > > >> >> On Oct 5, 8:02 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > And thus the need for education. CDO Swaps and other bits of > > banking > > >> >> > nastiness that prune money from the system while contributing > > nothing to > > >> >> it > > >> >> > are part of the problem. > > > >> >> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:35 PM, archytas <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >> >> > > We have Occupy here too - a few tent cities so far - people also > > >> >> > > making the point they ain't left-wing loonies. I went to the > > >> >> > > Manchester one yesterday to ask a few people 'why'? I'm not sure > > >> >> > > heard much that was accurate. Might have a look at Greece nearer > > >> >> > > Xmas. Most peopleI met yesterday didn't know what collateral- > > >> >> > > derivative fractional banking was. > > > >> >> > > On Oct 4, 2:40 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > Well then, reckon we should all grab shovels, yes? > > >> >> > > > On Oct 4, 2011 9:03 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > I guess my picture of normal, Chris, would be of an ostrich > > with > > >> >> its > > >> >> > > > > head in the sand - these being the people not doing > > occupation. > > > >> >> > > > > On Oct 4, 8:41 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> It is good to see you again Chris and Don.. > > > >> >> > > > >> I was thinking (I know a rare event) last night only to have > > the > > >> >> topic > > >> >> > > > >> return this morning.. > > > >> >> > > > >> After watching all the demonstrations some thing emerged > > that > > >> >> does not > > >> >> > > > make > > >> >> > > > >> sense to me nor do I understand. maybe some one can > > straighten me > > >> >> > > out.. > > > >> >> > > > >> He goes: If I invest my money in a company say Sky Cat (I > > like > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > idea) > > >> >> > > > I > > >> >> > > > >> am hoping the company will go on to produce me a profit by > > >> >> > > manufacturing > > >> >> > > > the > > >> >> > > > >> air type craft. They have my money, I have a share of their > > >> >> company > > >> >> > > > >> because they control my money.. > > > >> >> > > > >> Now if I give a "Bank" control of my money they do not in > > return > > >> >> give > > >> >> > > me > > >> >> > > > a > > >> >> > > > >> share of their stock like a normal company does.. they > > invest > > >> >> both > > >> >> > > their > > >> >> > > > >> money and my money and I have no problem with that,, what I > > have > > >> >> a > > >> >> > > > problem > > >> >> > > > >> with is the sharing of the profits.. if there is a profit > > their > > >> >> share > > >> >> > > of > > >> >> > > > the > > >> >> > > > >> money makes more money than mine,, but if they lose money > > It > > >> >> is my > > >> >> > > > money > > >> >> > > > >> that is lost not theirs.. > > > >> >> > > > >> Even if I put money in a simple savings account,, it is > > >> >> investing in > > >> >> > > the > > >> >> > > > >> bank.. and what I am seeing is a group if people who think > > the > > >> >> laws > > >> >> > > of > > >> >> > > > >> economics and moral responsibility. If they lose money,, > > because > > >> >> they > > >> >> > > are > > >> >> > > > >> the ones in control morally they should be taking the > > greater > > >> >> share of > > >> >> > > > the > > >> >> > > > >> lose.. and that includes the stock market.. > > >> >> > > > >> Allan > > > >> >> > > > >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Chris Jenkins < > > >> >> > > [email protected] > > >> >> > > > >wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> > Leaving moderation behind has made it feel like a whole > > new > > >> >> list for > > >> >> > > > me. :D > > > >> >> > > > >> > I too am worried about undue influence coopting the cause, > > but > > >> >> I > > >> >> > > think > > >> >> > > > >> > that's an inevitability of any populist movement. Even the > > >> >> Egyptians > > >> >> > > > are > > >> >> > > > >> > warily eyeing their "liberated" government. I just hope > > some > > >> >> good is > > >> >> > > > >> > accomplished along the way. > > >> >> > > > >> > On Oct 3, 2011 7:15 PM, "Don Johnson" <[email protected]> > > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> > > I'm very glad to see your august presence back amongst > > these > > >> >> > > humble > > >> >> > > > >> > boards > > >> >> > > > >> > > Chris. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > The self portraits of 99%s with notes describing > > themselves > > ... > > read more »
