I think there is where the problem lies,, several decades ago the revolution was bassed off ideology differences (the Little Red Book) this really was not a valid reason..
today I see a totally different world,, especially in the US also to a lesser extent Europe.. in the US there are other problems there are existing undergrounds outside of police intelligence,, there are massive amounts of weapons out of site and out of mind and other than the owner no one knows about them.. Even I still have guns and I no longer live there.. The US is extremely Large,, there is also a large community of motor homes which have the ability move and potentially lower the cost of living.. and organize.. the police are not unsympathetic either as they often times in the same or similar situation.. I do believe co-op-s will become more plentiful, underground work will become more prevalent.. it will change,, I think the start is in eliminating the political corruption that is so embedded.. sigh Allan I hate change .. but greed is so wide spread.. a tremendous lose of spirituality ,, but fundamentalism may have some perks in the end,, On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]>wrote: > I see BoA as an infinitely powerful entity, and can't imagine the behemoth > falling. > On Oct 5, 2011 10:18 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Pruning ain't the metaphor I'd choose Chris. Dexia Bank has just gone > > belly-up - it was 'worth' more than Belgium's GDP. The 'money' in the > > banking scam is at factors of ten in comparison with the world of real > > work. My view is that it's in the way of capitalism and democracy. > > The informed guess is they've been lending to crooks on a scale vastly > > bigger than the barrel-loads of dollars gone in Iraq and Afghanistan > > without securing any 'mineral rights'. The kleft stick is that they > > can only make money through the same old scams, so whatever we put > > back in (and I mean we) just does it all over again. In an > > oversimplified way, much of the debt is like you owing me $2 million, > > Don owing 'Francois' $5 million, me owing Molly (etc.) in an equation > > in which, if we cancelled out we're all solvent and I owe Orn a beer > > he won'r drink. What goes in the cancelling is the banks - the debts > > are so networked it's almost like the $2 million you owe me is > > balanced by $1.99 million I owe to people who owe you. I've been > > teaching the EU figures if anyone is interested (they just tell this > > story between EU countries). > > > > We've finally seen some reporting here. A Wall Street guy came on and > > said he was amazed more people weren't protesting as he thought true > > unemployment was at 15% - which is what I reckon here. The real issue > > to me is jobs and wages. A key figure for me is that the bottom 50% > > back in 1980 had 14% of liquid assets (cash more or less) and that's > > down to 1% now. Wages have fallen. The debt problem starts around > > 1965 and it's similar in form to similar ones around gold rushes in > > history. Most people I've seen on television or met in Manchester > > don't know much of the economics but are sick of the lack of > > opportunity. > > > > I was left a house when my cousin died and had to drop the price by a > > fifth to sell. There's no decent unskilled or engineering work around > > here and jobs are being lost at some rate. Just up the road we have > > 64 years of UK energy supply as shale gas about to be exploited. I > > worked on the survey 25 years back. You'd think we'd have a plan > > around this but there isn't one. > > > > Political blather is just about getting the economy moving, our people > > working. It's all dross. Interestingly, our Republicans couldn't > > even fill the seats for the Prime Minister's speech. He's not a half- > > wit like Palin but he's claiming his government has dealt with the > > banks - yet two of the one's we bailed out are still making the kinds > > of losses they were before 2008. One of them,HBOS, was running a > > criminal scam that closed many small companies and is not cooperating > > with the limited police enquiries. > > > > I don't think most people know how bad it all is yet. The collapse of > > Soc. Gen. and Bank of America should do it - B o A could even end up > > Chinese. There are underlying questions on how we get fed if it all > > collapses - after all, we're still growing the food. > > > > On Oct 5, 9:43 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Great time to live,, revolution is always exciting. Maybe if the > bankers > >> and stock market wake up. > >> > >> Do corporations still agree obey the laws of the state and the United > >> state.. and if they don't do they lose their corporate skirt > >> Allan > >> On Oct 5, 2011 7:37 PM, "Chris Jenkins" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Citizens United was one of the worst rulings in the entire history of > the > >> > Supreme Court. > >> > >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Comm. > .. > >> > >> > Restricting unions while empowering corporations in political speech > is one > >> > of the root problems that Occupy hopes to address. > >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, ornamentalmind < > [email protected] > >> > > wrote: > >> > >> >> It looks like the unions are entering into the fray. No doubt this > >> >> will accelerate the attacks on them… such as the proposals to greatly > >> >> limit and/or not allow political contributions. Perhaps if they > >> >> incorporated…. > >> > >> >> > http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/5/as_unions_students_join_occupy_... > >> > >> >> On Oct 5, 8:02 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > And thus the need for education. CDO Swaps and other bits of > banking > >> >> > nastiness that prune money from the system while contributing > nothing to > >> >> it > >> >> > are part of the problem. > >> > >> >> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:35 PM, archytas <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> > > We have Occupy here too - a few tent cities so far - people also > >> >> > > making the point they ain't left-wing loonies. I went to the > >> >> > > Manchester one yesterday to ask a few people 'why'? I'm not sure > >> >> > > heard much that was accurate. Might have a look at Greece nearer > >> >> > > Xmas. Most peopleI met yesterday didn't know what collateral- > >> >> > > derivative fractional banking was. > >> > >> >> > > On Oct 4, 2:40 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> > > > Well then, reckon we should all grab shovels, yes? > >> >> > > > On Oct 4, 2011 9:03 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> >> > > > > I guess my picture of normal, Chris, would be of an ostrich > with > >> >> its > >> >> > > > > head in the sand - these being the people not doing > occupation. > >> > >> >> > > > > On Oct 4, 8:41 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > > > >> It is good to see you again Chris and Don.. > >> > >> >> > > > >> I was thinking (I know a rare event) last night only to have > the > >> >> topic > >> >> > > > >> return this morning.. > >> > >> >> > > > >> After watching all the demonstrations some thing emerged > that > >> >> does not > >> >> > > > make > >> >> > > > >> sense to me nor do I understand. maybe some one can > straighten me > >> >> > > out.. > >> > >> >> > > > >> He goes: If I invest my money in a company say Sky Cat (I > like > >> >> the > >> >> > > idea) > >> >> > > > I > >> >> > > > >> am hoping the company will go on to produce me a profit by > >> >> > > manufacturing > >> >> > > > the > >> >> > > > >> air type craft. They have my money, I have a share of their > >> >> company > >> >> > > > >> because they control my money.. > >> > >> >> > > > >> Now if I give a "Bank" control of my money they do not in > return > >> >> give > >> >> > > me > >> >> > > > a > >> >> > > > >> share of their stock like a normal company does.. they > invest > >> >> both > >> >> > > their > >> >> > > > >> money and my money and I have no problem with that,, what I > have > >> >> a > >> >> > > > problem > >> >> > > > >> with is the sharing of the profits.. if there is a profit > their > >> >> share > >> >> > > of > >> >> > > > the > >> >> > > > >> money makes more money than mine,, but if they lose money > It > >> >> is my > >> >> > > > money > >> >> > > > >> that is lost not theirs.. > >> > >> >> > > > >> Even if I put money in a simple savings account,, it is > >> >> investing in > >> >> > > the > >> >> > > > >> bank.. and what I am seeing is a group if people who think > the > >> >> laws > >> >> > > of > >> >> > > > >> economics and moral responsibility. If they lose money,, > because > >> >> they > >> >> > > are > >> >> > > > >> the ones in control morally they should be taking the > greater > >> >> share of > >> >> > > > the > >> >> > > > >> lose.. and that includes the stock market.. > >> >> > > > >> Allan > >> > >> >> > > > >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Chris Jenkins < > >> >> > > [email protected] > >> >> > > > >wrote: > >> > >> >> > > > >> > Leaving moderation behind has made it feel like a whole > new > >> >> list for > >> >> > > > me. :D > >> > >> >> > > > >> > I too am worried about undue influence coopting the cause, > but > >> >> I > >> >> > > think > >> >> > > > >> > that's an inevitability of any populist movement. Even the > >> >> Egyptians > >> >> > > > are > >> >> > > > >> > warily eyeing their "liberated" government. I just hope > some > >> >> good is > >> >> > > > >> > accomplished along the way. > >> >> > > > >> > On Oct 3, 2011 7:15 PM, "Don Johnson" <[email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > > >> > > I'm very glad to see your august presence back amongst > these > >> >> > > humble > >> >> > > > >> > boards > >> >> > > > >> > > Chris. > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > The self portraits of 99%s with notes describing > themselves > >> >> > > affected > >> >> > > > me > >> >> > > > >> > > somewhat. Some are easy to dismiss as whiny but many are > >> >> obviously > >> >> > > > >> > feeling > >> >> > > > >> > > the same pain I see in family and friends around me. It > >> >> literally > >> >> > > > puts a > >> >> > > > >> > > face, many faces actually, on our problems. I'm very > glad > >> >> folks > >> >> > > like > >> >> > > > you > >> >> > > > >> > are > >> >> > > > >> > > out there recording these times. I mean that because I > see in > >> >> you > >> >> > > > someone > >> >> > > > >> > > without a particular agenda other then improvement. I > have > >> >> never > >> >> > > seen > >> >> > > > you > >> >> > > > >> > as > >> >> > > > >> > > someone that ignores or tries to cover up obvious > >> >> discrepancies in > >> >> > > > what > >> >> > > > >> > > politicians say and what they do. I find your support of > Ron > >> >> Paul > >> >> > > > >> > > refreshing. While I disagree with many of his policies > the > >> >> thing I > >> >> > > > most > >> >> > > > >> > > admire about him is his consistency. There are few > things our > >> >> > > > President > >> >> > > > >> > has > >> >> > > > >> > > done I approve of but killing terrorists is at the top > of the > >> >> > > list. > >> >> > > > Ron > >> >> > > > >> > is > >> >> > > > >> > > wrong on this. > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > Now, with the ass kissing portion of my post out of the > way, > >> >> let's > >> >> > > > get to > >> >> > > > >> > > the Occupy(pickyourplace) kerfuffle. I made the > observation > >> >> in a > >> >> > > post > >> >> > > > on > >> >> > > > >> > G+ > >> >> > > > >> > > that this may be one of those times when you see Tea > Partiers > >> >> > > > marching > >> >> > > > >> > next > >> >> > > > >> > > to Code Pinkers. Nobody likes corp. welfare and high > >> >> unemployment > >> >> > > > except > >> >> > > > >> > for > >> >> > > > >> > > the lobbyists and politicians that engineer it. Even > they > >> >> don't > >> >> > > like > >> >> > > > it > >> >> > > > >> > when > >> >> > > > >> > > they get caught. On the one hand I'm glad folks are > "doing > >> >> > > something" > >> >> > > > but > >> >> > > > >> > on > >> >> > > > >> > > the other I'm concerned with what seems to be unions > trying > >> >> to > >> >> > > > highjack > >> >> > > > >> > the > >> >> > > > >> > > movement for their own selfish ends. They are some of > the > >> >> biggest > >> >> > > > causes > >> >> > > > >> > of > >> >> > > > >> > > our current crisis. Just read s story how GM has > thousands of > >> >> > > Volts > >> >> > > > >> > sitting > >> >> > > > >> > > around not getting sold. This is what happens when > government > >> >> > > builds > >> >> > > > your > >> >> > > > >> > > cars or your solar panels. Somebody else always makes > them > >> >> better > >> >> > > AND > >> >> > > > >> > > cheaper. My concern is most of those 'protesting' don't > see > >> >> things > >> >> > > > quite > >> >> > > > >> > the > >> >> > > > >> > > same way I do. Far too many are on the Class Warfare > path and > >> >> this > >> >> > > > >> > disturbs > >> >> > > > >> > > me. I have no beef with the rich. In fact, I appreciate > that > >> >> they > >> >> > > pay > >> >> > > > the > >> >> > > > >> > > most and give the most. I hate favoritism and that is > what > >> >> > > government > >> >> > > > >> > > control and the punish/reward aspect of taxation is all > >> >> about. I > >> >> > > hate > >> >> > > > it. > >> >> > > > >> > > It's why I like Herman Cain's 'plan' of 9-9-9 better > then > >> >> anything > >> >> > > > else > >> >> > > > >> > > anybody has come up with. Getting rid of ALL the > loopholes > >> >> for the > >> >> > > > very > >> >> > > > >> > > wealthy would be awesome. It's galling to find out some > of > >> >> the > >> >> > > most > >> >> > > > >> > ardent > >> >> > > > >> > > celebrity liberal supporters have much of their wealth > >> >> sheltered > >> >> > > from > >> >> > > > >> > taxes. > >> >> > > > >> > > Smart but hugely hypocritical. That said the rich aren't > the > >> >> > > problem, > >> >> > > > our > >> >> > > > >> > > screwy tax laws and a political class bent on pork and > back > >> >> > > > scratching > >> >> > > > >> > and > >> >> > > > >> > > huge, mind numbing waste are. I agree we need to clean > house > >> >> in > >> >> > > > >> > Washington > >> >> > > > >> > > but I fear most of those in the streets would disagree > with > >> >> me who > >> >> > > > the > >> >> > > > >> > major > >> >> > > > >> > > culprits are. > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > As usual, Rigs makes the most sense of all the comments > here. > >> >> > > While > >> >> > > > I'm > >> >> > > > >> > not > >> >> > > > >> > > a supporter of the status quo exactly I do have a > substantial > >> >> > > amount > >> >> > > > of > >> >> > > > >> > my > >> >> > > > >> > > retirement in the market and T-bills. The required > >> >> destruction of > >> >> > > our > >> >> > > > >> > > current system to come up with something more to Archy's > >> >> taste I'm > >> >> > > > scared > >> >> > > > >> > to > >> >> > > > >> > > death of. That's what crazy people like George Soros > want. > >> >> That's > >> >> > > not > >> >> > > > for > >> >> > > > >> > > me. A more vigilant FTC and massive simplification of > the tax > >> >> code > >> >> > > I > >> >> > > > >> > would > >> >> > > > >> > > welcome. > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > Thems my thoughts but I'm keeping an open mind. > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:42 PM, gabbydott < > >> >> [email protected]> > >> >> > > > wrote: > >> > >> >> > > > >> > >> Ok, let's settle for rule #10! :) > >> > >> >> > > > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Chris Jenkins < > >> >> > > > >> > [email protected]>wrote: > >> > >> >> > > > >> > >>> Fantastic link, Gabby! I especially like number 10. :D > >> > >> >> > > > >> > >>> No, by normalcy, I meant that the media focus to date > has > >> >> been > >> >> > > on > >> >> > > > the > >> >> > > > >> > >>> counterculture types mostly, while > >> > >> ... > >> > >> read more » > -- ( ) |_D Allan If your life is not going right, try making a left turn life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
