I see BoA as an infinitely powerful entity, and can't imagine the behemoth
falling.
On Oct 5, 2011 10:18 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Pruning ain't the metaphor I'd choose Chris. Dexia Bank has just gone
> belly-up - it was 'worth' more than Belgium's GDP. The 'money' in the
> banking scam is at factors of ten in comparison with the world of real
> work. My view is that it's in the way of capitalism and democracy.
> The informed guess is they've been lending to crooks on a scale vastly
> bigger than the barrel-loads of dollars gone in Iraq and Afghanistan
> without securing any 'mineral rights'. The kleft stick is that they
> can only make money through the same old scams, so whatever we put
> back in (and I mean we) just does it all over again. In an
> oversimplified way, much of the debt is like you owing me $2 million,
> Don owing 'Francois' $5 million, me owing Molly (etc.) in an equation
> in which, if we cancelled out we're all solvent and I owe Orn a beer
> he won'r drink. What goes in the cancelling is the banks - the debts
> are so networked it's almost like the $2 million you owe me is
> balanced by $1.99 million I owe to people who owe you. I've been
> teaching the EU figures if anyone is interested (they just tell this
> story between EU countries).
>
> We've finally seen some reporting here. A Wall Street guy came on and
> said he was amazed more people weren't protesting as he thought true
> unemployment was at 15% - which is what I reckon here. The real issue
> to me is jobs and wages. A key figure for me is that the bottom 50%
> back in 1980 had 14% of liquid assets (cash more or less) and that's
> down to 1% now. Wages have fallen. The debt problem starts around
> 1965 and it's similar in form to similar ones around gold rushes in
> history. Most people I've seen on television or met in Manchester
> don't know much of the economics but are sick of the lack of
> opportunity.
>
> I was left a house when my cousin died and had to drop the price by a
> fifth to sell. There's no decent unskilled or engineering work around
> here and jobs are being lost at some rate. Just up the road we have
> 64 years of UK energy supply as shale gas about to be exploited. I
> worked on the survey 25 years back. You'd think we'd have a plan
> around this but there isn't one.
>
> Political blather is just about getting the economy moving, our people
> working. It's all dross. Interestingly, our Republicans couldn't
> even fill the seats for the Prime Minister's speech. He's not a half-
> wit like Palin but he's claiming his government has dealt with the
> banks - yet two of the one's we bailed out are still making the kinds
> of losses they were before 2008. One of them,HBOS, was running a
> criminal scam that closed many small companies and is not cooperating
> with the limited police enquiries.
>
> I don't think most people know how bad it all is yet. The collapse of
> Soc. Gen. and Bank of America should do it - B o A could even end up
> Chinese. There are underlying questions on how we get fed if it all
> collapses - after all, we're still growing the food.
>
> On Oct 5, 9:43 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Great time to live,, revolution is always exciting. Maybe if the bankers
>> and stock market wake up.
>>
>> Do corporations still agree obey the laws of the state and the United
>> state.. and if they don't do they lose their corporate skirt
>> Allan
>> On Oct 5, 2011 7:37 PM, "Chris Jenkins" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Citizens United was one of the worst rulings in the entire history of
the
>> > Supreme Court.
>>
>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Comm...
>>
>> > Restricting unions while empowering corporations in political speech is
one
>> > of the root problems that Occupy hopes to address.
>>
>> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, ornamentalmind <
[email protected]
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> >> It looks like the unions are entering into the fray. No doubt this
>> >> will accelerate the attacks on them… such as the proposals to greatly
>> >> limit and/or not allow political contributions. Perhaps if they
>> >> incorporated….
>>
>> >>http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/5/as_unions_students_join_occupy_.
..
>>
>> >> On Oct 5, 8:02 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > And thus the need for education. CDO Swaps and other bits of banking
>> >> > nastiness that prune money from the system while contributing
nothing to
>> >> it
>> >> > are part of the problem.
>>
>> >> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:35 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > > We have Occupy here too - a few tent cities so far - people also
>> >> > > making the point they ain't left-wing loonies. I went to the
>> >> > > Manchester one yesterday to ask a few people 'why'? I'm not sure
>> >> > > heard much that was accurate. Might have a look at Greece nearer
>> >> > > Xmas. Most peopleI met yesterday didn't know what collateral-
>> >> > > derivative fractional banking was.
>>
>> >> > > On Oct 4, 2:40 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> >> > > > Well then, reckon we should all grab shovels, yes?
>> >> > > > On Oct 4, 2011 9:03 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > > I guess my picture of normal, Chris, would be of an ostrich
with
>> >> its
>> >> > > > > head in the sand - these being the people not doing
occupation.
>>
>> >> > > > > On Oct 4, 8:41 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > > > >> It is good to see you again Chris and Don..
>>
>> >> > > > >> I was thinking (I know a rare event) last night only to have
the
>> >> topic
>> >> > > > >> return this morning..
>>
>> >> > > > >> After watching all the demonstrations some thing emerged that
>> >> does not
>> >> > > > make
>> >> > > > >> sense to me nor do I understand. maybe some one can
straighten me
>> >> > > out..
>>
>> >> > > > >> He goes: If I invest my money in a company say Sky Cat (I
like
>> >> the
>> >> > > idea)
>> >> > > > I
>> >> > > > >> am hoping the company will go on to produce me a profit by
>> >> > > manufacturing
>> >> > > > the
>> >> > > > >> air type craft. They have my money, I have a share of their
>> >> company
>> >> > > > >> because they control my money..
>>
>> >> > > > >> Now if I give a "Bank" control of my money they do not in
return
>> >> give
>> >> > > me
>> >> > > > a
>> >> > > > >> share of their stock like a normal company does.. they
invest
>> >> both
>> >> > > their
>> >> > > > >> money and my money and I have no problem with that,, what I
have
>> >> a
>> >> > > > problem
>> >> > > > >> with is the sharing of the profits.. if there is a profit
their
>> >> share
>> >> > > of
>> >> > > > the
>> >> > > > >> money makes more money than mine,, but if they lose money
It
>> >> is my
>> >> > > > money
>> >> > > > >> that is lost not theirs..
>>
>> >> > > > >> Even if I put money in a simple savings account,, it is
>> >> investing in
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > > >> bank.. and what I am seeing is a group if people who think
the
>> >> laws
>> >> > > of
>> >> > > > >> economics and moral responsibility. If they lose money,,
because
>> >> they
>> >> > > are
>> >> > > > >> the ones in control morally they should be taking the greater
>> >> share of
>> >> > > > the
>> >> > > > >> lose.. and that includes the stock market..
>> >> > > > >> Allan
>>
>> >> > > > >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Chris Jenkins <
>> >> > > [email protected]
>> >> > > > >wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > >> > Leaving moderation behind has made it feel like a whole new
>> >> list for
>> >> > > > me. :D
>>
>> >> > > > >> > I too am worried about undue influence coopting the cause,
but
>> >> I
>> >> > > think
>> >> > > > >> > that's an inevitability of any populist movement. Even the
>> >> Egyptians
>> >> > > > are
>> >> > > > >> > warily eyeing their "liberated" government. I just hope
some
>> >> good is
>> >> > > > >> > accomplished along the way.
>> >> > > > >> > On Oct 3, 2011 7:15 PM, "Don Johnson" <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > > >> > > I'm very glad to see your august presence back amongst
these
>> >> > > humble
>> >> > > > >> > boards
>> >> > > > >> > > Chris.
>>
>> >> > > > >> > > The self portraits of 99%s with notes describing
themselves
>> >> > > affected
>> >> > > > me
>> >> > > > >> > > somewhat. Some are easy to dismiss as whiny but many are
>> >> obviously
>> >> > > > >> > feeling
>> >> > > > >> > > the same pain I see in family and friends around me. It
>> >> literally
>> >> > > > puts a
>> >> > > > >> > > face, many faces actually, on our problems. I'm very glad
>> >> folks
>> >> > > like
>> >> > > > you
>> >> > > > >> > are
>> >> > > > >> > > out there recording these times. I mean that because I
see in
>> >> you
>> >> > > > someone
>> >> > > > >> > > without a particular agenda other then improvement. I
have
>> >> never
>> >> > > seen
>> >> > > > you
>> >> > > > >> > as
>> >> > > > >> > > someone that ignores or tries to cover up obvious
>> >> discrepancies in
>> >> > > > what
>> >> > > > >> > > politicians say and what they do. I find your support of
Ron
>> >> Paul
>> >> > > > >> > > refreshing. While I disagree with many of his policies
the
>> >> thing I
>> >> > > > most
>> >> > > > >> > > admire about him is his consistency. There are few things
our
>> >> > > > President
>> >> > > > >> > has
>> >> > > > >> > > done I approve of but killing terrorists is at the top of
the
>> >> > > list.
>> >> > > > Ron
>> >> > > > >> > is
>> >> > > > >> > > wrong on this.
>>
>> >> > > > >> > > Now, with the ass kissing portion of my post out of the
way,
>> >> let's
>> >> > > > get to
>> >> > > > >> > > the Occupy(pickyourplace) kerfuffle. I made the
observation
>> >> in a
>> >> > > post
>> >> > > > on
>> >> > > > >> > G+
>> >> > > > >> > > that this may be one of those times when you see Tea
Partiers
>> >> > > > marching
>> >> > > > >> > next
>> >> > > > >> > > to Code Pinkers. Nobody likes corp. welfare and high
>> >> unemployment
>> >> > > > except
>> >> > > > >> > for
>> >> > > > >> > > the lobbyists and politicians that engineer it. Even they
>> >> don't
>> >> > > like
>> >> > > > it
>> >> > > > >> > when
>> >> > > > >> > > they get caught. On the one hand I'm glad folks are
"doing
>> >> > > something"
>> >> > > > but
>> >> > > > >> > on
>> >> > > > >> > > the other I'm concerned with what seems to be unions
trying
>> >> to
>> >> > > > highjack
>> >> > > > >> > the
>> >> > > > >> > > movement for their own selfish ends. They are some of the
>> >> biggest
>> >> > > > causes
>> >> > > > >> > of
>> >> > > > >> > > our current crisis. Just read s story how GM has
thousands of
>> >> > > Volts
>> >> > > > >> > sitting
>> >> > > > >> > > around not getting sold. This is what happens when
government
>> >> > > builds
>> >> > > > your
>> >> > > > >> > > cars or your solar panels. Somebody else always makes
them
>> >> better
>> >> > > AND
>> >> > > > >> > > cheaper. My concern is most of those 'protesting' don't
see
>> >> things
>> >> > > > quite
>> >> > > > >> > the
>> >> > > > >> > > same way I do. Far too many are on the Class Warfare path
and
>> >> this
>> >> > > > >> > disturbs
>> >> > > > >> > > me. I have no beef with the rich. In fact, I appreciate
that
>> >> they
>> >> > > pay
>> >> > > > the
>> >> > > > >> > > most and give the most. I hate favoritism and that is
what
>> >> > > government
>> >> > > > >> > > control and the punish/reward aspect of taxation is all
>> >> about. I
>> >> > > hate
>> >> > > > it.
>> >> > > > >> > > It's why I like Herman Cain's 'plan' of 9-9-9 better then
>> >> anything
>> >> > > > else
>> >> > > > >> > > anybody has come up with. Getting rid of ALL the
loopholes
>> >> for the
>> >> > > > very
>> >> > > > >> > > wealthy would be awesome. It's galling to find out some
of
>> >> the
>> >> > > most
>> >> > > > >> > ardent
>> >> > > > >> > > celebrity liberal supporters have much of their wealth
>> >> sheltered
>> >> > > from
>> >> > > > >> > taxes.
>> >> > > > >> > > Smart but hugely hypocritical. That said the rich aren't
the
>> >> > > problem,
>> >> > > > our
>> >> > > > >> > > screwy tax laws and a political class bent on pork and
back
>> >> > > > scratching
>> >> > > > >> > and
>> >> > > > >> > > huge, mind numbing waste are. I agree we need to clean
house
>> >> in
>> >> > > > >> > Washington
>> >> > > > >> > > but I fear most of those in the streets would disagree
with
>> >> me who
>> >> > > > the
>> >> > > > >> > major
>> >> > > > >> > > culprits are.
>>
>> >> > > > >> > > As usual, Rigs makes the most sense of all the comments
here.
>> >> > > While
>> >> > > > I'm
>> >> > > > >> > not
>> >> > > > >> > > a supporter of the status quo exactly I do have a
substantial
>> >> > > amount
>> >> > > > of
>> >> > > > >> > my
>> >> > > > >> > > retirement in the market and T-bills. The required
>> >> destruction of
>> >> > > our
>> >> > > > >> > > current system to come up with something more to Archy's
>> >> taste I'm
>> >> > > > scared
>> >> > > > >> > to
>> >> > > > >> > > death of. That's what crazy people like George Soros
want.
>> >> That's
>> >> > > not
>> >> > > > for
>> >> > > > >> > > me. A more vigilant FTC and massive simplification of the
tax
>> >> code
>> >> > > I
>> >> > > > >> > would
>> >> > > > >> > > welcome.
>>
>> >> > > > >> > > Thems my thoughts but I'm keeping an open mind.
>>
>> >> > > > >> > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:42 PM, gabbydott <
>> >> [email protected]>
>> >> > > > wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > >> > >> Ok, let's settle for rule #10! :)
>>
>> >> > > > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Chris Jenkins <
>> >> > > > >> > [email protected]>wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > >> > >>> Fantastic link, Gabby! I especially like number 10. :D
>>
>> >> > > > >> > >>> No, by normalcy, I meant that the media focus to date
has
>> >> been
>> >> > > on
>> >> > > > the
>> >> > > > >> > >>> counterculture types mostly, while
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »
