Yes, Allan, I remember you mentioned that before. The feeling of shock must have been a reaction to your American upbringing. The tabula rasa myth was an imported myth or so, no?
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > Gabby you should look into those who signed the American declaration of > independence as for the Bill of Right is was copied almost verbatim of the > Dutch ill of rights written a hundred years earlier.. You can imagine my > shock when I found that out.. > Allan > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Jenkins > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Gabby, I hope you approve. I tried my best to follow rule #10: >> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150334273466494.348470.722681493&l=b50118df79&type=1 >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Chris Jenkins < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Actually, we all brought garbage bags, and cleaned up after ourselves. As >>> for finding a job, I've been on the market for over 18 months, with a solid, >>> industry professional resume, and have found nothing. Meanwhile, many of my >>> former colleagues have joined my ranks. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:19 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> The biased media and comics have been trashing conservatives and >>>> ridiculing the Tea Party and various candidiates so you have to expect >>>> some payback. >>>> >>>> How do these protestors expect to find a job or stay in school if they >>>> spend all their time protesting? Who will pay for the clean-up? What >>>> business would risk hiring these people? >>>> >>>> Most loot is not easily transported. :-) >>>> >>>> On Oct 6, 9:40 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > I scanned it and agree, a bit bullshitty but one must admire the >>>> hopeful >>>> > tone the writer emits. So the Occupiers are all about coming together >>>> if not >>>> > completely cogent on their reasons for doing so. Where the Tea Party, >>>> to me, >>>> > has mostly been about tax and spending cuts Tthe Occupiers seem, again >>>> to >>>> > me(it's a shame it's still so unclear) to be all about political >>>> corporate >>>> > favoritism. I would hesitate to label the 99%ers as Class Warriors >>>> although >>>> > many of their organizers seem to have this at the top of their agenda. >>>> > >>>> > I'm disappointed in the rhetoric from Conservative mouthpieces like >>>> Limbaugh >>>> > that are trashing the movement. Ridiculing the protestors and so >>>> forth. It >>>> > would make more sense to recognize that there are those that are >>>> having some >>>> > tough times and try to help educate those disaffected folks on the >>>> real >>>> > problems which isn't rich people per se. It's bad government. By both >>>> > Republicans and Democrats. In a nutshell, too much wasteful spending >>>> and not >>>> > enough pin-pointed economic stimulus spending. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks for the link to the Boston Group Arch I'll probably read it >>>> again >>>> > soon. These economist make sense but the real problem is going to be >>>> coming >>>> > up with something everyone can swallow. We sure don't need our very >>>> own >>>> > Reign Of Terror. Nobody wants to give in here. If I was rich I'd be >>>> tired of >>>> > being called the bad guy all the time unless I really was the bad guy >>>> in >>>> > which case I wouldn't care a fig. I'd take my loot and go somewhere >>>> else. >>>> > God help us all. >>>> > >>>> > dj >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 12:02 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > > There's a take on Occupy Wall Street at >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/matt-stoller-the-anti-politics. >>>> .. >>>> > > - that sounds like Allan - a bit bullshitty (sorry Al - not you) >>>> Chris >>>> > > but an interesting take. >>>> > >>>> > > I can't stand any standard politics now. It's madness. >>>> > >>>> > > On Oct 6, 8:36 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > > > I think there is where the problem lies,, several decades ago the >>>> > > > revolution was bassed off ideology differences (the Little Red >>>> Book) >>>> > > this >>>> > > > really was not a valid reason.. >>>> > >>>> > > > today I see >>>> > > >>>> http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/matt-stoller-the-anti-politics...differentworld,, >>>> especially in the US also to a >>>> > > > lesser extent Europe.. in the US there are other problems there >>>> are >>>> > > > existing undergrounds outside of police intelligence,, there are >>>> massive >>>> > > > amounts of weapons out of site and out of mind and other than the >>>> owner >>>> > > no >>>> > > > one knows about them.. Even I still have guns and I no longer >>>> live >>>> > > there.. >>>> > >>>> > > > The US is extremely Large,, there is also a large community of >>>> motor >>>> > > homes >>>> > > > which have the ability move and potentially lower the cost of >>>> living.. >>>> > > > and organize.. the police are not unsympathetic either as they >>>> often >>>> > > times >>>> > > > in the same or similar situation.. >>>> > >>>> > > > I do believe co-op-s will become more plentiful, underground work >>>> will >>>> > > > become more prevalent.. it will change,, I think the start is in >>>> > > > eliminating the political corruption that is so embedded.. >>>> > > > sigh >>>> > > > Allan >>>> > >>>> > > > I hate change .. but greed is so wide spread.. a tremendous lose >>>> > > > of spirituality ,, but fundamentalism may have some perks in >>>> the end,, >>>> > >>>> > > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>> > > [email protected]>wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > > > I see BoA as an infinitely powerful entity, and can't imagine >>>> the >>>> > > behemoth >>>> > > > > falling. >>>> > > > > On Oct 5, 2011 10:18 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > > > > > Pruning ain't the metaphor I'd choose Chris. Dexia Bank has >>>> just gone >>>> > > > > > belly-up - it was 'worth' more than Belgium's GDP. The 'money' >>>> in the >>>> > > > > > banking scam is at factors of ten in comparison with the world >>>> of >>>> > > real >>>> > > > > > work. My view is that it's in the way of capitalism and >>>> democracy. >>>> > > > > > The informed guess is they've been lending to crooks on a >>>> scale >>>> > > vastly >>>> > > > > > bigger than the barrel-loads of dollars gone in Iraq and >>>> Afghanistan >>>> > > > > > without securing any 'mineral rights'. The kleft stick is that >>>> they >>>> > > > > > can only make money through the same old scams, so whatever we >>>> put >>>> > > > > > back in (and I mean we) just does it all over again. In an >>>> > > > > > oversimplified way, much of the debt is like you owing me $2 >>>> million, >>>> > > > > > Don owing 'Francois' $5 million, me owing Molly (etc.) in an >>>> equation >>>> > > > > > in which, if we cancelled out we're all solvent and I owe Orn >>>> a beer >>>> > > > > > he won'r drink. What goes in the cancelling is the banks - the >>>> debts >>>> > > > > > are so networked it's almost like the $2 million you owe me is >>>> > > > > > balanced by $1.99 million I owe to people who owe you. I've >>>> been >>>> > > > > > teaching the EU figures if anyone is interested (they just >>>> tell this >>>> > > > > > story between EU countries). >>>> > >>>> > > > > > We've finally seen some reporting here. A Wall Street guy came >>>> on and >>>> > > > > > said he was amazed more people weren't protesting as he >>>> thought true >>>> > > > > > unemployment was at 15% - which is what I reckon here. The >>>> real issue >>>> > > > > > to me is jobs and wages. A key figure for me is that the >>>> bottom 50% >>>> > > > > > back in 1980 had 14% of liquid assets (cash more or less) and >>>> that's >>>> > > > > > down to 1% now. Wages have fallen. The debt problem starts >>>> around >>>> > > > > > 1965 and it's similar in form to similar ones around gold >>>> rushes in >>>> > > > > > history. Most people I've seen on television or met in >>>> Manchester >>>> > > > > > don't know much of the economics but are sick of the lack of >>>> > > > > > opportunity. >>>> > >>>> > > > > > I was left a house when my cousin died and had to drop the >>>> price by a >>>> > > > > > fifth to sell. There's no decent unskilled or engineering work >>>> around >>>> > > > > > here and jobs are being lost at some rate. Just up the road we >>>> have >>>> > > > > > 64 years of UK energy supply as shale gas about to be >>>> exploited. I >>>> > > > > > worked on the survey 25 years back. You'd think we'd have a >>>> plan >>>> > > > > > around this but there isn't one. >>>> > >>>> > > > > > Political blather is just about getting the economy moving, >>>> our >>>> > > people >>>> > > > > > working. It's all dross. Interestingly, our Republicans >>>> couldn't >>>> > > > > > even fill the seats for the Prime Minister's speech. He's not >>>> a half- >>>> > > > > > wit like Palin but he's claiming his government has dealt with >>>> the >>>> > > > > > banks - yet two of the one's we bailed out are still making >>>> the kinds >>>> > > > > > of losses they were before 2008. One of them,HBOS, was running >>>> a >>>> > > > > > criminal scam that closed many small companies and is not >>>> cooperating >>>> > > > > > with the limited police enquiries. >>>> > >>>> > > > > > I don't think most people know how bad it all is yet. The >>>> collapse of >>>> > > > > > Soc. Gen. and Bank of America should do it - B o A could even >>>> end up >>>> > > > > > Chinese. There are underlying questions on how we get fed if >>>> it all >>>> > > > > > collapses - after all, we're still growing the food. >>>> > >>>> > > > > > On Oct 5, 9:43 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > > > > >> Great time to live,, revolution is always exciting. Maybe if >>>> the >>>> > > > > bankers >>>> > > > > >> and stock market wake up. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> Do corporations still agree obey the laws of the state and >>>> the >>>> > > United >>>> > > > > >> state.. and if they don't do they lose their corporate skirt >>>> > > > > >> Allan >>>> > > > > >> On Oct 5, 2011 7:37 PM, "Chris Jenkins" < >>>> > > [email protected]> >>>> > > > > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> > Citizens United was one of the worst rulings in the entire >>>> history >>>> > > of >>>> > > > > the >>>> > > > > >> > Supreme Court. >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Comm. >>>> > > > > .. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> > Restricting unions while empowering corporations in >>>> political >>>> > > speech >>>> > > > > is one >>>> > > > > >> > of the root problems that Occupy hopes to address. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, ornamentalmind < >>>> > > > > [email protected] >>>> > > > > >> > > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> >> It looks like the unions are entering into the fray. No >>>> doubt >>>> > > this >>>> > > > > >> >> will accelerate the attacks on them… such as the proposals >>>> to >>>> > > greatly >>>> > > > > >> >> limit and/or not allow political contributions. Perhaps if >>>> they >>>> > > > > >> >> incorporated…. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >>>> http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/5/as_unions_students_join_occupy_. >>>> > > .. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> >> On Oct 5, 8:02 am, Chris Jenkins < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > > > > >> >> > And thus the need for education. CDO Swaps and other >>>> bits of >>>> > > > > banking >>>> > > > > >> >> > nastiness that prune money from the system while >>>> contributing >>>> > > > > nothing to >>>> > > > > >> >> it >>>> > > > > >> >> > are part of the problem. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> >> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:35 PM, archytas < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> > > > > wrote: >>>> > > > > >> >> > > We have Occupy here too - a few tent cities so far - >>>> people >>>> > > also >>>> > > > > >> >> > > making the point they ain't left-wing loonies. I went >>>> to the >>>> > > > > >> >> > > Manchester one yesterday to ask a few people 'why'? >>>> I'm not >>>> > > sure >>>> > > > > >> >> > > heard much that was accurate. Might have a look at >>>> Greece >>>> > > nearer >>>> > > > > >> >> > > Xmas. Most peopleI met yesterday didn't know what >>>> > > collateral- >>>> > > > > >> >> > > derivative fractional banking was. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> >> > > On Oct 4, 2:40 pm, Chris Jenkins < >>>> [email protected] >>>> > >>>> > > > > wrote: >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > Well then, reckon we should all grab shovels, yes? >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > On Oct 4, 2011 9:03 AM, "archytas" < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > > I guess my picture of normal, Chris, would be of >>>> an >>>> > > ostrich >>>> > > > > with >>>> > > > > >> >> its >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > > head in the sand - these being the people not >>>> doing >>>> > > > > occupation. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > > On Oct 4, 8:41 am, Allan H <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > >> It is good to see you again Chris and Don.. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > >> I was thinking (I know a rare event) last night >>>> only to >>>> > > have >>>> > > > > the >>>> > > > > >> >> topic >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > >> return this morning.. >>>> > >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > >> After watching all the demonstrations some thing >>>> emerged >>>> > > > > that >>>> > > > > >> >> does not >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > make >>>> > > > > >> >> > > > >> sense to me nor do I understand. maybe some one >>>> can >>>> > > > > straighten me >>>> > >>>> > ... >>>> > >>>> > read more »- Hide quoted text - >>>> > >>>> > - Show quoted text - >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > ( > ) > |_D Allan > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. > > >
