> [Ron]
> I guess what I'm saying is my personel experience
> has been a level of awareness you describe
> as a continual stream of events where I'm aware of
> things without actually thinking about them.
I can think about a continual stream of events.
[Ron]
> ...there is this state of awareness then there is
> thinking about things. I'm saying that even in
> my awareness of continual stream of events I sense
> objects other than me ie. cricket chirping. which
> I allow to pass through me.
Sure. I agree with this, but what I also notice
that when you state 'cricking chirping' you have also
taken a step back and pointed out that you, "...sense
objects other than..." you. I breath. This air that
I breath, that I can't live without, is this air thus
me too? Sure, why not? Thinking is flexible.
[Ron]
> I just feel that there are two differing levels of
awareness
> that seem to be getting lumped together somehow in
> the MOQ perpective. If you ever got "sucker
punched" or been
> hit by something you were not aware of, there is
> this split second of pure awareness before
> the pain sets in and you begin to rationalize just
> what hit you and how.
ok
[Ron]
> if you've been hit in the back of the head, your
vision becomes
> jumbled and nothing visually makes sense for a few
moments.
> experience tells you if this has happened before
that more than
> likely you're going to get hit again
> and head for cover if you are unexperienced you are
> going to pop your head up and look around
> for what hit you, probably getting it in the face
> this time.
ok.
[Ron]
> With out intellection and SOM
> I feel the fist,bottle,shoe hit my face,me. And you
> have s/o distinction before I can think about it.
I really am having difficulty here. Ok, I
understand a bottle hits me, and I duck and want to
get away from another bottle hitting me, and if the
bottle wasn't separate or had no distance from me then
my running away would be pointless. I'm not arguing
this. I'm arguing the metaphysics, the reality that
states bottle is real and I'm not real. I'm arguing
against a metaphysics that concludes that objective
reality is where truth resides, and subjective reality
has no firm ground to stand upon, is imaginative, and
a fantasy for children, but once you grow up into
finding the truth you must graduate into objects being
truth. I also dismiss subjective reality is truth,
and objects must be dismissed. That objects are just
what we think, and this world is all in our heads.
I'm not focusing on subjects and objects due to their
trappings. If I focus on subjects or objects then I
may tend to trap myself into forgetting one or the
other. A this and that reality. It's easier and more
helpful for me to notice that subjects and objects are
ONE event. I focus on that one event and see what
happens. I guess subject and object talk has
historical hang-ups, and even trying to explain
ourselves in this thread becomes loopy and difficult,
I would say for one, simply by trying to explain
ourselves by using subject/object (s/o). I get
hung-up on the / between the s and o.
[Ron]
> It's just curious. I get confused when Pirsig says
> there is dynamic quality of the immediate experience
> and SOM nothing else, to which I ask well what the
> heck was before the greeks invention of SOM?
When does Pirsig say there is dq and SOM and
nothing else? I thought he discusses static quality,
too.
[Ron]
> someone list the OTHER brands of metaphysics and if
> it's cultural then it should be easy to point to
OTHER cultural
> metaphysics should'nt it?
Zen
[Ron]
> Thanks SA, I'm just askin questions, any help would
> be appreciated.
Let's keep discussing.
thanks.
woods,
SA
P.S. Notice that when I say woods, I'm talking about
myself too, for I'm in the woods also.
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