I would say though Arlo & Steve, That music created by written composition and then played (the intellectual symbolic manipulation kind) is a relatively recent invention.
Music created by humans directly interacting with bits of wood and animal skins 'cos it sounds and feels good, is probably directly experienced aesthetic and social from the outset. And, if we take a motorcycle back to the invention of the wheel, I suspect there was time when slipping a round log under a heavy rock, just felt right, without any hint of (post-rationalising) intellect or symbolic manipluation. But I get your point Arlo - just didn't want us to confuse "music" with intellectual activity that **might** go into creating it - and thereby the linguistic trick of calling it music by design - same point from the other angle. Ian On 12/10/07, Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Steve to Platt] > I think we are stuck saying that music is intellectual within > Pirsig's framework. It doesn't feel quite right though. > > It is manipulation of symbols (notes) that stand for patterns of > experience (sounds). > > [Arlo] > I agree, and I don't see this as a problem. I think its easiest when > you don't conflate the "music" with the "aesthetic experience". That > is, "music" is a collection of symbols (intellect) which when done > masterfully point "out" of the picture, provide a metaphor by which > the interactants (those viewing, listening, etc.) are able to, for a > brief moment, see "outside" the structure of intellect and gaze into the > abyss. > > What Pirsig tried to do in ZMM was point out that ALL our endeavors > can be done artfully, and as such even in simple things like > repairing a motorcycle can produce art-metaphor in which the object > becomes a conduit for escaping "intellection" (as some call it). > > It may help to liken music to mathematics in this particular > instance. Both are the arrangement of symbols toward the expression > of some symbolic representation. And both, when done properly, open > up the door to an aesthetic experience that transcends the particular > symbols. The construction of a motorcycle is the same. > > So my caution is to be weary of even unintended snobbery (but > especially deliberate snobbery) that elevates "music" above other > activity, be it literature or mechanics. > > In other words, the "art" that derives from "music, as from all > activity, occurs when the symbols therein are arranged or ordered in > such a way as to produce a metaphor powerful enough to shatter the > boundaries and foundations of our intellectual description of reality. > > The "music" is the ordered arrangement of the symbols. Intellectual > activity. The resultant "aesthetic experience" is neither contained > in, nor part of, the "music". It is a moment of Zen, when our windows > on the world are cast wide open, that may just as easily be triggered > by a collection of sounds or a collection of gears. > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
