i am currently listening to the music of cicadas...penetrating rising-fallin cadences. i don't think they think much about what they are doing.
--- david buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Arlo said: > I agree, [that music is intellectual] and I don't > see this as a problem. I think its easiest when you > don't conflate the "music" with the "aesthetic > experience". That is, "music" is a collection of > symbols (intellect) which when done masterfully > point "out" of the picture, provide a metaphor by > which the interactants (those viewing, listening, > etc.) are able to, for a brief moment, see "outside" > the structure of intellect and gaze into the abyss. > > dmb says: > It seems reasonable to say that music theory and the > system of musical notation is intellectual but I > think music itself, organized sound, is older and > deeper than language. It communicates with an > immediacy that makes the use of symbols unnecessary. > I mean, its almost like sad music is not symbolic of > sadness, does not refer to sadness and does not even > JUST evoke sadness. It IS sad, directly, in and of > itself. If you know what I mean. Can you tell I've > been reading Dewey? > > Arlo said: > What Pirsig tried to do in ZMM was point out that > ALL our endeavors can be done artfully, and as such > even in simple things like repairing a motorcycle > can produce art-metaphor in which the object > becomes a conduit for escaping "intellection" (as > some call it). > > dmb says: > Right, and when he was feeling cranky he complained > about the quality of a cultural enviroment in which > artfulness is way too rare. > > Arlo said: > It may help to liken music to mathematics in this > particular instance. Both are the arrangement of > symbols toward the expression of some symbolic > representation. And both, when done properly, open > up the door to an aesthetic experience that > transcends the particular symbols. The construction > of a motorcycle is the same. ...So my caution is to > be weary of even unintended snobbery (but especially > deliberate snobbery) that elevates "music" above > other activity, be it literature or mechanics. > > dmb says: > Again, I'd say that the mathematical structure of > music is a much later discovery, etc. Music itself > can be played and enjoyed without any knowledge of > notation systems, mathematical structutres or > theories. Continuing with my alternative view, I'm > thinking that one of the things that makes music so > powerful is its non-symbol, immediacy. In that > sense, it is as close to pure asethetic form as > we're likely to get. I'd even go so far as to say > that its vibratory nature makes it sort of deeply > imbedded in the physical universe and the rhythm of > it ties it to all creatures with a heartbeat. And I > could (Hail to the Chief) also add (God Save the > Queen) that music (We Will Rock You) plays an > important (Silent Night, Holy Night) role at the > social level. Plus it has a good beat and its easy > to dance to. So yea, music is intellectual in some > sense, in some cases and in some forms but its also > that last thing music is. You know, in the > evolutionary sense. > > Arlo said: > In other words, the "art" that derives from "music, > as from all activity, occurs when the symbols > therein are arranged or ordered in such a way as to > produce a metaphor powerful enough to shatter the > boundaries and foundations of our intellectual > description of reality. > > dmb says: > Yes, some art is truly world-shattering. But if > you'll indulge my Deweyesque contradictions, I was > thinking that music has a huge advantage in his > conception of the aesthetic experience. His > description of "an" experience, as he callled it, > pretty well describes the shape of most any song. > There is an initial qualitative immediacy that sets > the mood and pace and direction, this quality is > developed, elaborated and then it all finally comes > together near the end where the whole preceding > sequence is "consummated". And like the fact that > the term "consummation" is so suggestive because > this notion of aesthetic experience, "an" > experience, is supposed to be sampatico with the > natural rhythms of life. > > Arlo said: > The "music" is the ordered arrangement of the > symbols. Intellectual activity. The resultant > "aesthetic experience" is neither contained in, nor > part of, the "music". It is a moment of Zen, when > our windows on the world are cast wide open, that > may just as easily be triggered by a collection of > sounds or a collection of gears. > > dmb says: > Dewey held that the products of artists are only > part of the story. He thought that "art" was what > happened to and in experience rather than the thing, > the object of art. Like a good meal, the cook is > thinking of the dinner guest while she works and the > dinner guest can more or less taste what happened in > the kitchen before she arrived. In this way the > artist and the appreciator are joined and necessary > to each other. Art is about a whole lot of things > coming together, ain't it? > > Its so exciting to disagree with you about > something, Arlo. A rare treat. > > Thanks, > dmb > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The best games are on Xbox 360. 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