Hi Arlo, you're still talking about "composed" music. And I don't just mean symbolically written composition ...
Jungle drumming (say) is full of symbology too, but is nevertheless composed by repetition and usage of rhythms and tonal patterns (or their designed absence if you're Cage or Stockhausen.) I still say there is a non-symbolic kind - just pleasing sounds with no prior thought to composition. I guess we're just debating when you'd call it "music". Bird song for example ? (Forget aesthetic I was just using it as non-symbolic - symbolic of nothing but its own experience - to contrast with symbolic.) Anyway, not seen the Ian Curtis film, but saw a great review, so I'm on the look out for it. Ian On 12/11/07, ARLO J BENSINGER JR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Ian] > But see my point about purely aesthetic music too - without intellectual > symbology. > > [Arlo] > I think this may be, as I said to Steve, a result of differing meanings for > "symbols", but I find it impossible to imagine "music" without "intellectual > symbology". Even John Cage's long passages of silence are the willful, > intellectual manipulating of symbols with the intent to represent specific > cultural associations. > > Now, of course, there is the "music of nature", the "song" we hear as we walk > in the woods, and as such the aesthetic experience is formed from the > construction of disparate rather than ordered symbolic associations. But the > aesthetic experience derives no less from the catalyzing effect of symbolic > associations than that which derives from a fugue or a well-maintained > motorcycle. > > I also take some disagreement with your pairing "aesthetic music". Music is > the > arrangement of sound-symbols (mostly), that does not contain the aesthetic. > Thus there is no "aesthetic music as contrasted with non-aesthetic music", > there is only "music" which may or may not induce an aesthetic experience. > And > music that induces an aesthetic experience in me (Joy Division, for example) > may not in you (if you are a Joy Division fan, be sure to catch the new black > and white film depicting Ian Curtis' life and death). > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
