Steve and Platt On 10 Dec. Platt cited Steve.
> [Steve] > > Pirsig said the MOQ is an intellectual pattern and therefore part of > > the fourth level and he never described a fifth level. > [Pirsig] > "Third, there were moral codes that established the supremacy of the > intellectual order over the social order-democracy, trial by jury, > freedom of speech, freedom of the press. Finally there's a fourth > Dynamic morality which isn't a code. He supposed you could call it a > "code of Art" or something like that, but art is usually thought of as > such a frill that that title undercuts its importance." (Lila, 13) This is a most useful point - thanks Platt. Pirsig clearly saw a fourth moral code, one that is above and "controls" intellect, like the third is intellect's control of society, and this 4th code must necessarily be the philosophy that has intellect as a sub-set. He had however decided on the MOQ an intellectual pattern and gives it short thrift, it may however prove to be a major point. > [Steve] > > I agree with him. I can't > > see the MOQ as part of a fifth level because a fifth level would > > have to be categorically different from the fourth in the way that a > > living being is different from an inanimate object or a city is > > different from a living being or an essay is different from a city. > > I don't see this sort of difference in kind between the MOQ and some > > version of SOM. They are both still philosophies. > [Pirsig] > In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance art was defined as high > quality endeavor. I have never found a need to add anything to that > definition. But one of the reasons I have spent so much time in this > paper describing the personal relationship of Werner Heisenberg and > Niels Bohr in the development of quantum theory is that although the > world views science as a sort of plodding, logical methodical > advancement of knowledge, what I saw here were two artists in the > throes of creative discovery. They were at the cutting edge of > knowledge plunging into the unknown trying to bring something out of > that unknown into a static form that would be of value to everyone. As > Bohr might have loved to observe, science and art are just two > different complementary ways of looking at the same thing. In the > largest sense it is really unnecessary to create a meeting of the arts > and sciences because in actual practice, at the most immediate level > they have never really been separated. They have always been different > aspects of the same human purpose." (SODV) > If you substitute "philosophy" for "science" in the above passage it > will perhaps help explain why I attribute the MOQ to a Code of Art. > With the MOQ, Pirsig plunged "into the unknown trying to bring > something out of that unknown into a static form that would be of > value to everyone." Excellent! > As for the necessity of being categorically different than the > previous level, in what category would you put Beethoven's Fifth > Symphony? Seems to me a category embracing the arts is needed in > Pirsig's moral hierarchy. On the other hand, Pirsig's broad definition > of the intellectual level in a note in Lila's Child could arguably > include the arts: > "It (the Intellectual Level) is the collection and manipulation of > symbols, created in the brain, that stand for patterns of experience." > (Note 25) Don't waver Platt after such a "tour de force" of deep understanding, the said definition is a patch-up of the even more untenable "mind" one. Regarding Steve's requirement of "categorical difference" what can be more so than the MOQ from SOM? But the MOQ is of course no 5th. static level - forget about that - it is the DQ/SQ metaphysics that has the former S/O metaphysics as its highest static good. > Perhaps you're right -- the MOQ is strictly within the intellectual > level. But I would maintain it's intellect from a new point of view, > just as Duchamp's "Nude Descending a Staircase" was a new view that > helped launch modern abstract art. The MOQ began as an intellectual pattern (has its root in SOM) but like the static levels it eventually "took off on a purpose of its own" and that purpose is categorically different from SOM's, that's for sure. Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
