Steve (and Arlo) But see my point about purely aesthetic music too - without intellectual symbology.
Ian On 12/10/07, Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Arlo, > > I really like what you said about music as intellectual patterns below. > > What about abstract visual art which endeavors to elicit an aesthetic > experience without using symbols? Would you still consider these > works intellectual patterns? > > Regards, > Steve > > > [Steve to Platt] > > I think we are stuck saying that music is intellectual within > > Pirsig's framework. It doesn't feel quite right though. > > > > It is manipulation of symbols (notes) that stand for patterns of > > experience (sounds). > > > > [Arlo] > > I agree, and I don't see this as a problem. I think its easiest when > > you don't conflate the "music" with the "aesthetic experience". That > > is, "music" is a collection of symbols (intellect) which when done > > masterfully point "out" of the picture, provide a metaphor by which > > the interactants (those viewing, listening, etc.) are able to, for a > > brief moment, see "outside" the structure of intellect and gaze > > into the abyss. > > > > What Pirsig tried to do in ZMM was point out that ALL our endeavors > > can be done artfully, and as such even in simple things like > > repairing a motorcycle can produce art-metaphor in which the object > > becomes a conduit for escaping "intellection" (as some call it). > > > > It may help to liken music to mathematics in this particular > > instance. Both are the arrangement of symbols toward the expression > > of some symbolic representation. And both, when done properly, open > > up the door to an aesthetic experience that transcends the particular > > symbols. The construction of a motorcycle is the same. > > > > So my caution is to be weary of even unintended snobbery (but > > especially deliberate snobbery) that elevates "music" above other > > activity, be it literature or mechanics. > > > > In other words, the "art" that derives from "music, as from all > > activity, occurs when the symbols therein are arranged or ordered in > > such a way as to produce a metaphor powerful enough to shatter the > > boundaries and foundations of our intellectual description of reality. > > > > The "music" is the ordered arrangement of the symbols. Intellectual > > activity. The resultant "aesthetic experience" is neither contained > > in, nor part of, the "music". It is a moment of Zen, when our windows > > on the world are cast wide open, that may just as easily be triggered > > by a collection of sounds or a collection of gears. > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
