Hi Bo
> Bo:
> The issue was that I pointed to brain's capacity to (you know the
> whole argument so from now I just call it) "manipulate
> experience" and that the next levels in turn adopted this capacity,
> but only with intellect did the said manipulation become "mental"
> in contrast to the real world. I need not add anything to Chris'
> pointing out that it is intellect that deems everything below itself
> as inferior, from the MOQ seen they are VALUABLE E levels!
>
> May I add that the MOQ reject's Intellect's S/O as reality's
> deepest slice and introduces the Dynamic/Static one, thus there
> is no thought world in contrast to a real world. Thus your
> accustion of me making all levels "thought levels" is nil and void.
Nah, we're talking about the levels here, we've already left the DQ/SQ split
behind and have been discussing the 4 levels.
My accusation only goes as far down as the 2nd level though, not the first.
> Magnus:
>> "Biological origin"? You know very well that I consider the human
>> brain to be much more than just biological. In fact, the brain itself
>> has no such senses we normally connect with biology such as smell,
>> sight, hearing, etc. The brain are just fed the signals sent by those
>> senses and then manipulates those signals in a very sophisticated
>> (read level 4:ish) manner.
>
> Bo:
> Biology in a MOQ context is the value of transforming inorganic
> patterns (among a milion other things) into sense experience.
> Please step out of your arch-somish stance of regarding brain as
> hardware where some software does the said transformation. It's
> most telling that you put "4:ish" in brackets, because this is SOM
> to the core.
I didn't say the brain does the transformation from inorganic patterns to
biological sense experience. I said that the senses does that. I explicitly
wrote that "the brain itself has no such senses" above.
On the other hand, the brain as the hardware where software is running is no
different from my view of the human brain. But *only* in terms of static
patterns. A computer is immune to DQ influence.
>> Coming from you, that term "biological origin" sounds like you're
>> trying to side-step the fact that individual humans are able to
>> "think" even when disconnected from their native society.
>
> The point of this I have problems interpreting.
The 4 levels are supposed to depend on each lower level, right? So where is the
society in your view when a human is disconnected from his? Can he still think
rational thoughts without his society?
>> Why do I disagree? Because the rest of the universe doesn't fit with
>> that version of the 4:th level. It only serves the purpose to explain
>> why you can't talk to cows and make them appreciate the beauty of
>> life.
>
> The "cow" alludes to my QE essay, but that was young Bo
> speculating from SOM's premises. From MOQ's premises all
> S/O-induced enigmas dissolves, the cow (animals) "appreciate
> biological values" and so do we when focus is at that level. We
> are "bovine" when our biological needs are satisfied ;-)
There you did it again. "So do we when focus is at that level". These little
formulations from you are a constant reminder that you seem to only regard the
levels as just different ways to focus a mind. When a mind is hungry, it wants
to eat, when it's lonely, it wants to chat with a few friends, and when it's
curious, it wants to make rational arguments. But the world is about more than
just minds having different types of needs.
> Magnus:
>> So, describe a stone in terms of the levels. And then a thought of a
>> stone. What are they?
>
> "In terms of the levels" means from MOQ's perspective because
> its only there the Quality context is seen, the static levels knows
> nothing about being value levels. Intellect created the S/O
> dichotomy (in this case the "thought/what thoughts are about")
> thus a "thought of a stone" only exists at intellect. I don't really
> see the point of this, but you will be good to explain.
Ok, but you missed describing a stone in terms of the levels.
Magnus
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