[Platt] The enlightenment Founding Fathers weren't "neutered" from their religion.
[Arlo] Actually, this is a great example of how "religion" was neutered by secular enlightenment. The secular ideas of "liberty" and "freedom" developed by enlightenment philosophers, and influenced by the encounter with Native Americans, stands in stark contrast to the thousand year rule of "religion" in the west. It also evidences the time from which "religion" has attempted to lay claim to the very philosophies that neutered it. And it just goes to show the extreme lengths people go to to proclaim "God is on my side", even after secular enlightenment should have freed us from all that nonsense. [Arlo previously] But your claim was not about the last 100 years. It was about how those who advocate "state supremacy" are "atheists". Historically, this is far from true. Nor is your "implied" belief that "belief in God" keeps man "free from state control", as is proven false by even the most cursory of historical reads. [Platt] Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Castro et al were God-fearing leaders? Yeah, right. [Arlo] I'm not even sure what this is, other than ridiculous distractive talk-radio rhetoric. It makes absolutely no sense in reply to what I've said. So quick it comes to that. For how many thousand years did man "believe in God", serve "God-fearing leaders", and end up with no rights, no liberty, executed at whim, subservient to the Lords, and that's not even mentioning the millions slaughtered by "God-fearing leaders" simply for not believing in the right god. No, it is not "belief in God" that has kept man "free from state control", much as the post-secular enlightenment apologists may wish to distort it. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
