> [Platt] > The enlightenment Founding Fathers weren't "neutered" from their religion. > > [Arlo] > Actually, this is a great example of how "religion" was neutered by > secular enlightenment. The secular ideas of "liberty" and "freedom" > developed by enlightenment philosophers, and influenced by the > encounter with Native Americans, stands in stark contrast to the > thousand year rule of "religion" in the west. > > It also evidences the time from which "religion" has attempted to lay > claim to the very philosophies that neutered it. And it just goes to > show the extreme lengths people go to to proclaim "God is on my > side", even after secular enlightenment should have freed us from all > that nonsense.
Say what? Are you claiming the Founding Fathers rejected religion? > [Arlo previously] > But your claim was not about the last 100 years. It was about how > those who advocate "state supremacy" are "atheists". Historically, > this is far from true. Nor is your "implied" belief that "belief in > God" keeps man "free from state control", as is proven false by even > the most cursory of historical reads. > > [Platt] > Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Castro et al were God-fearing > leaders? Yeah, right. > > [Arlo] > I'm not even sure what this is, other than ridiculous distractive > talk-radio rhetoric. It makes absolutely no sense in reply to what > I've said. So quick it comes to that. Makes perfect sense in response to your claim that "it's far from true" that those who advocate state supremacy are atheists. > For how many thousand years did man "believe in God", serve > "God-fearing leaders", and end up with no rights, no liberty, > executed at whim, subservient to the Lords, and that's not even > mentioning the millions slaughtered by "God-fearing leaders" simply > for not believing in the right god. Recent history has seen the consequences of replacing the supremacy of God with the supremacy of the state. > No, it is not "belief in God" that has kept man "free from state > control", much as the post-secular enlightenment apologists may wish > to distort it. Who are these secular enlightened people you keep talking about? Are they the same intellectuals Pirsig says have led us to PARADISE . . . PARADISE . . .PARADISE? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
