Happy new year Ron,

So, the Law of Non-Contradiction and the Law of Excluded 
Middle are just tools and were never intended to be used to 
determine Reality?   


Marsha




On Jan 2, 2010, at 9:43 AM, X Acto wrote:

> Marsha,
>> From what I understand of my reading of Aristotles metaphysics
> it sure does. Aristotle starts from the premise of the dynamic
> and the relative making the arguement for distinctions or measure
> for better understanding. True/false, non contradiction, are tools
> to create order from the flux. Conventions. Useful in the building
> of certain types of knowledge, scientific. The metaphysics is a theory
> on the building of scientific meaning.
> 
> To look back through a scientific dominated society at it as
> a statement about the laws of "reality"  is taking it a bit out 
> of context in my own opinion.
> 
> best wishes for a happy new year
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 8:09:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Protagoras and "Measure"
> 
> Ian, Matt,
> 
> I have been haunted by something I read a while ago:  All knowledge is to 
> some degree 
> false because it is to some degree incomplete.  Wouldn't this make knowledge 
> both
> true and false?  And this morning I read that Feyerbend called the laws of 
> formal logic naive.  
> Margolis says much about adding Indeterminate to the bipolar truth-values: 
> True or False, but
> I'm finding his book very difficult because he mentions dozens of 
> philosophers (briefly stating 
> their argument) I have never heard of, and who seem to have some professional 
> stake in 
> this game.  But I wonder that DQ is present in every event and it is 
> indeterminate.  Hmmm.  
> 
> 
> 
> Marsha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 2, 2010, at 4:44 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
> 
>> Nice one Matt,
>> 
>> I'd seen tha ambiguity on the measure / rationality aspect before but
>> not the things / experience side of it. Very interesting.
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Matt Kundert
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I ran across something interesting today.  I didn't realize this, but 
>>> Protagoras' famous aphorism "Man is the measure of all things..." has an 
>>> ambiguity in the English (at least for amateurs who only read translations 
>>> and dabble in Greek words).
>>> 
>>> I'd always assumed that what standardly gets translated as "measure" was 
>>> related to the Latin "ratio," and that old saw about how "reason" and 
>>> mathematical "measuring" are ancient relations. etc.  Well, the Latin 
>>> "ratio" is the translation of "logos," which all us amateurs recognize as 
>>> one of the more famous Greek words: reason, thought, account, measure, 
>>> word, etc.
>>> 
>>> The Greek word translated as "measure" in Protagoras' aphorism is _not_ 
>>> Logos, but
>>> 
>>> Metron
>>> 
>>> "Metro" in modern Greek is still "measure."  However, what I ran across 
>>> which made much of what the actual Greek word is was an alternative 
>>> translation by Mario Untersteiner (often considered a renegade scholar by 
>>> respected Anglophones I've run across), who wrote a book on the Sophists 
>>> that is almost impossible to find in English for under $50 (been out of 
>>> print for half a century):
>>> 
>>> "Man is the master of all experiences..."
>>> 
>>> I have no bead on what Greek word (or phrase) "things" or "experiences" 
>>> translates.  All I can identify is "metron" and "anthropos" (the 
>>> gender-neutral "man").  But I imagine "experiences" sounds even better to 
>>> Pirsigians, whatever one might think of "measure vs. master."
>>> 
>>> Matt
>>> 
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>   
> _______________________________________________________________________
>   
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